MY SPL METER DROPPED

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blindhorse
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2014/09/24 20:27:59 (permalink)

MY SPL METER DROPPED

I have a Radio Shack SPL Meter, circa 1985. I had it mounted on a microphone stand with velcro.  I went upstairs this evening and found it lying in the corner of the space. The RS SPL had come undone from the attachment.
I am religious when it comes to listening volume.  Eighty percent of the time I listen@75 db or below.  Seven % of the time I listen@88 db and below.  Three percent of the time I listen@90 db.
The SPL Meter will not zero out.  The VU meter wavers at -6 db.  Should I trust my meter anymore?  Do you recommend I find a replacement? 
I need this thing to be accurate in a bad way.
 
the blind horse
#1

18 Replies Related Threads

    gustabo
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/24 21:23:35 (permalink)
    Have an iPhone or an Android device?
    Try an app called Decibel 10th by SkyPaw


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    #2
    bitflipper
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 14:26:51 (permalink)
    I wonder how accurate those smartphone apps really are. They look cool, and you'll always have it with you. But I won't be convinced of their accuracy until I've tested one alongside a proper calibrated meter. The microphones in smartphones are dreadful, and I'm sure no measures are taken to assure consistency from unit to unit during manufacture, much less any kind of calibration.
     
    blindhorse, I have an old ratshack meter hanging on the wall here, too. One of the best buys I've ever made. But I rarely use it. That's because once I know the relationship between the volume knob on my interface and the SPL levels out of the speakers, there's no need to re-measure. 
     
    Because it's possible the microphone was damaged, it's unlikely you'll be able to repair it. I'd suggest replacing it if you can still find one. If not, maybe you can borrow one, take your measurements and mark the 75, 88, and 90 dB positions on your interface or Big Knob or the back of the speaker or however you adjust volume.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #3
    blindhorse
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 15:09:08 (permalink)
    Thanks for the replies fellas,
     
    gustabo, I don't have a phone that would download that app.  I'm still using an old Motorola with a 1" screen.  It does everything I need it to do though, I can even send texts. 
     
    Bit, thanks for the advice.  I will try to find one on the cheap, and then try to learn knob positions.  I think I was getting close to knowing the levels coming from the monitors, and it was partly because I was judicious about constantly checking.
     
    Thanks again, you guys are great.
    the blind horse
     
     
    #4
    Karyn
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 16:37:09 (permalink)
    blindhorse
    I'm still using an old Motorola with a 1" screen.  It does everything I need it to do though,

    Like....  acting as an SPL meter?    

    Mekashi Futo
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    #5
    dmbaer
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 19:49:40 (permalink)
    Came across this link:
     
    http://www.safetyawakenings.com/safety-app-of-the-week-42/
     
    The article presents test results for a number of iPad/iPhone dB meter apps.  One was rated quite high for accuracy - although bitflipper is right to be skeptical about the consistency of microphones in multiple devices.  It could be that the iPad they used for these tests just happened to be right on the money.
     
    Most of the apps were rejected as total junk.  One clear winner emerged: SPLnFFT Noise Meter.  Went ahead and bought it - couldn't resist at just four bucks.

     

    #6
    blindhorse
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 20:14:40 (permalink)
    karyn, you da man! 
     
    dmbaer, as you relate, bit is right to express skepticism.  With that in mind, there are certainly technologies that transfer well.
     
    We all do what we can. Varied information is a good thing; the wide muddy it may very well be.
     
    We take hearing for granted, and often listen only when it matters little.
     
    the blind horse
    #7
    gustabo
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 20:33:26 (permalink)
    dmbaer
    Came across this link:
     
    http://www.safetyawakenings.com/safety-app-of-the-week-42/
     
    The article presents test results for a number of iPad/iPhone dB meter apps.  One was rated quite high for accuracy - although bitflipper is right to be skeptical about the consistency of microphones in multiple devices.  It could be that the iPad they used for these tests just happened to be right on the money.
     
    Most of the apps were rejected as total junk.  One clear winner emerged: SPLnFFT Noise Meter.  Went ahead and bought it - couldn't resist at just four bucks.


    Thanks for the link, just bought SPLnFFT Noise Meter


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    #8
    michaelhanson
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/25 22:32:56 (permalink)
    Thanks for the tip, I just picked it up for four bucks as well.

    Mike

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    #9
    bitflipper
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/26 09:02:04 (permalink)
    I was going to do a test myself, comparing my Android phone and tablet to the Radio Shack meter. I went to the Play store and was going to download the free version of the highest-rated one. Right there in the vendor's description was a lengthy caveat about the limitations of such devices. 
     
    He noted that the circuitry is optimized for speech frequencies and conversational levels, so don't expect any low-frequency response below 300Hz. You can see the obvious problem already: frequencies below 300 Hz represent 99% of the sound energy. Note that in the tests dmbaer linked to above, the test frequencies are 1 KHz and 8 KHz.
     
    He also gives maximum SPLs for some different devices, ranging from as low as 80 dB (Samsung Galaxy S3, which happens to be my phone) to 100 dB (for the Moto Droid). My tablet maxes out at 91 dB. Makes sense; there is going to be a built-in limiter in there. That means the accuracy likely falls off the louder you get.
     
    I think these apps would suffice for their intended purpose, which is not studio calibration duties but rather environmental testing. If you think you've got grounds for an OSHA complaint at your workplace, one of these apps would probably give you ammunition. Just don't expect OSHA to show up with an iPhone. 


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #10
    Karyn
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/26 11:38:49 (permalink)
    The "review" discounted Audio Tools on the grounds of lack of features.  I HAVE Audio Tools and there are dozens of modules giving all sorts of tools and features for the audio engineer, including at least 3 different ways of measuring/recording SPL.
    Audio Tools also includes a "generic calibration" patch for the iPhone to make allowance for the frequency response of the in-built mic.  It can be turned off if using an external reference mic.

    Mekashi Futo
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    #11
    Jeff Evans
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/26 22:21:10 (permalink)
    I don't believe you can keep track of 'How loud' your SPL levels are especially over time. (without any form of SPL meter that is. You are deluding yourself if you think you can monitor at exactly the same SPL level all the time using only your memory)  Having a meter around is a better working option and will keep you honest.  I have got a radio Shack VU type SPL meter permanently on and telling me how loud things are.  I checked it against an expensive SPL meter and it was always within 1 dB of what the expensive meter was telling me so I am happy with that.
     
    Often I feel the volume in the room is fine but to my surprise it is 90 dB SPL or over.  Monitor SPL level creep can happen! 83-85 dB SPL is a good level for doing mixes.  (Pink noise at 85 dB SPL sounds much louder than music at that same level so be aware!)  Be careful spending too much time at too low a level. You will find yourself not hearing the extreme bottom and top end so well and may over compensate for it.
     
    85 dB SPL is one of those levels where our ear frequency response is sort of flattest if you could call it that!
    I spend most time at 83-85 dB SPL and quite some time too mixing low level around 75 db SPL too on a single mono speaker as well.  Good for sorting lots of things out.  Back up 85 though for most stuff.  Nice to do a short heavy hit at 95 to 100 dB SPL too for quick bass and reverb checks and a little excitement.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2014/09/29 15:48:21

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    #12
    blindhorse
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/28 18:10:33 (permalink)
    Hello All, thanks for the excellent input.
     
    I opted out of thinking about the phone app because I am not ready to purchase a new phone.  The cost is more than I want to incur at this time.  With that said, were I in a position to need such a phone I would certainly perform more research to see which phone, and which app, provided the most reliable results.
     
    I truly am sorry that my RS SPL meter fell to the floor.  I relied on that thing so much.  The funny thing is, the floor is carpeted, so it must have fallen just right to render it "possibly" unreliable.
     
    In the mean time I have sprung for an $18 model from a mega online "retailer."  I guess in the least it will "possibly" confirm that my RS model is janked, or maybe just reveal that the RS model is slightly disabled (like my right ear.)
     
    With that in mind, and at the risk of derailing my own thread, I have noticed more recently that 80 db from a song with a large dynamic quotient is less fatiguing than a song that is hard limited to 0.1 (?,) at the same 80 db.
     
    My eyes have been opened to the misuse of plugs.
     
    I work around many youth, and loudness is an obelisk of machismo/worth to them.  Though the argument for the loudness wars has been hashed and rehashed, I hope that this thread will assist others in appreciating the value of those fragile auditory organs that allow us to discern sounds as low as 30 db, and for the fortunate few, as high as 20khz.  Get a reliable meter and use it.
     
    Pink noise?  It surrounds us.  Go outside, close your eyes, and listen.
     
    The dehumidifier in the other room creates a whir.  I wonder where music would be without 60 cycle alternating current?
     
    Anyway, I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I sure do appreciate your illuminating thoughts.
     
    the blind horse
     
     
    #13
    bitflipper
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/29 10:17:38 (permalink)
    I have noticed more recently that 80 db from a song with a large dynamic quotient is less fatiguing than a song that is hard limited to 0.1 (?,) at the same 80 db.

    So true. There is some music I can't turn down far enough to enjoy on my pocket MP3 player and still hear the details. Other recordings just get better when I turn them up.
     
    Technically, it's not about the 0.1 dB peak limit, but rather the gain that usually accompanies hard limiting, raising the average level to the point where your ears never get a chance to reset. There's nothing inherently wrong with setting your brick wall to 0.1 dB, assuming your limiter is good enough to guarantee that all peaks stop right there. And, of course, that you don't shove all the other samples up against it. 
     


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #14
    blindhorse
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/09/29 16:39:52 (permalink)
    Bit wrote "Technically, it's not about the 0.1 dB peak limit, but rather the gain that usually accompanies hard limiting, raising the average level to the point where your ears never get a chance to reset."
     
    the blind horse wrote "Therein lies the problem."
     
    Thanks, and my ears thank you too.
     
    #15
    blindhorse
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/10/02 19:13:07 (permalink)
    Hello Fellow Acolytes,
    though few are those with time to care
    USPS delivered my new SPL meter
    I a/b it against my RS SPL meter and found that the former is not as janked as I thought it would be.
    I know that the RS SPL is not accurate to the nano stage, but it is within a "range" of accuracy.
    Now I have two devices to help me understand freq/db.
    I move them around the room, the new one is weighted a/s, so I set the RS at c/f.  The best thing is this; I really have three monitoring devices. I am learning to listen better; not to the loudness, or the freq (though surely they have a say,) but to how my ears "feel."  If the noise hurts I know something is wrong. 
     
    I want to label this thread closed, but I don't know how.  I ask the moderator to help me achieve this.  I'm a slow learner.
     
    I also hope that those who are challenged as I am; those who want to hear, but are conditioned to hear loud, will turn it down.  If it hurts...it hurts, follow your ears/heart/muse.
     
    A few more loose ends, and I'm off to asc;emt9uwev5,cgw4kgw.
     
    the blind horse
     
     
    #16
    Karyn
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/10/02 19:49:05 (permalink)
    Edit your original post and add [Resolved] to the subject line.
     
    or if you wish I can do it for you.
     
     
    If you feel one post in particular answered your question, press the 'Answer' button at the bottom of that post to mark it.  It makes it easier for others when reading the thread in future.
    post edited by Karyn - 2014/10/02 19:52:49

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/10/02 22:28:26 (permalink)
    I did some research a while back on A and C weightings.  Result after a lot of reading was if you are listening to music C weighting is a MUST!  A  weighting will not help you at all.  It reads low because it is not hearing any low end and that is why the  A  weighting is useless for music applications.  Good for things in the mid range and above which music is not. Maybe you should have checked that out first.
     
    The bass is there in the music and you are hearing it.  And so should the SPL meter.  The RS meter is well within a db of being accurate as well.  I tested it against at $400 SPL meter!
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2014/10/02 22:33:29

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    #18
    Karyn
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    Re: MY SPL METER DROPPED 2014/10/03 04:50:45 (permalink)
    More specifically,  C weighting is designed to approximate the frequency response of our ears.

    Mekashi Futo
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