Envelope follower in Sonar-x?

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whereismybeer
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2014/09/30 14:13:35 (permalink)

Envelope follower in Sonar-x?

Hello Folks,
 
Does anybody know if there is a built-in envelope follower in the SonarX (as in the demo version not everything is included, I understood...)?
Or if a Sonar expert could explain, how to set up plugins (which I believe do what I need) - such as Insert Piz Here: Audio to CC or Reaktor`s Amptocc - I would be very very happy... If is`s possible at all.
 
I`m not after conventional side-chaining but after the ability to automate or modulate (vst plugin and Sonar) knobs and sliders by an incoming audio`s peak or RMS levels. 
As I would like to move over from Fl Studio the only example I can bring up is from there, quite well demonstrated in this video (6:45):

 
^Basically the envelope controller used as an fx insert and then any parameter (both external and native) can be modulated by connecting to the internal controller modulated by peal levels...
 
My inability to do this is probably the only thing that prevents me from buying it yet, so your input would be greatly appreciated as I`m getting frustrated.
Thank you
 
#1

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    Anderton
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/09/30 15:28:28 (permalink)
    Actually Sonar used to include one of the coolest envelope followers ever, the AN-879 Analyst. It could generate different envelopes for different bands as well as an overall one. It's not installed by default any more but is in the X1 and X2 distribution media...it might even be in X3 but just not installed, I'm not sure.
     
    I've written about it but here's a thread that cuts to the chase:
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Cakewalk-AN879-Analyst-in-X1-m2326383.aspx
     

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #2
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/01 08:34:29 (permalink)
    I never knew this, thanks, Craig. I did have X2 on this installation before X3 so I can't be positive if it is in X3 too, but it's in my Audio FX/DirectX/Cakewalk/ plugin menu and is called just "Analyst".
    Considering it was part of the original Cakewalk DX fx, I would expect it to be in X3 too. At least I can think of no reason why they would leave these legacy plugs out.
    #3
    whereismybeer
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/01 16:00:02 (permalink)
    Thank you Mr Anderton.
     
    I googled it and according to a review on audiofanzine the plugin is left out from x3 but it was in x1 and x2. I`m totally new to sonar so I wouldn`t have it and it may not even have a feature (reverse?) that is crucial for me.
    After some research yesterday I found that Blue Cat`s Digital Meter Pro can do exactly what I want (it seems), there is even a tutorial on their site with sonar.
    BUT coming from another daw I`m still rather confused how connections work in sonar - do I have to treat every effect as a synth to be able to connect their parameters to internal or vst controllers?? Or can I modulate CCs from a rewired Flstudio through a virtual midi cable? And if yes, where can I find a list of parameters in sonar?
    I`m a bit surprised that this feature is not integrated in such a well-grown and complete DAW.
     
    Thanks again
     
    #4
    Roo Stercogburn
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/02 02:16:36 (permalink)
    whereismybeerBUT coming from another daw I`m still rather confused how connections work in sonar - do I have to treat every effect as a synth to be able to connect their parameters to internal or vst controllers?? Or can I modulate CCs from a rewired Flstudio through a virtual midi cable? And if yes, where can I find a list of parameters in sonar?

     
    The only time I put in FX as a synth is when I want to send midi data to them, usually music/notes. Everything else I put in as Audio FX because the FX parameters are exposed to the DAW and available in Automation Lanes (assuming the manufacturer of the FX item has made them so).
     
    If you click on the instrument track, then open up automation lanes, you get a list that contains both the synth you are using (if it is a synth of course) as well as FX applied to it. Just select the FX item you want and drill down through the parameters that are available. So you can control FX paramaters as well as your synth parameters in the same way.
     
    Other people may use FX units as synths for other reasons but for me, its only when I want them to play a tune themselves, for example, vocoders and autotuning. For those things, I'll create an extra midi track and aim the output at the FX object.
    #5
    scook
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/02 02:38:06 (permalink)
    I was able to use AudioToCC to drive a plug-in with MIDI learn capability. Here is how:
    1. Add AudioToCC to the FX bin of the source audio track
    2. Using the VST2 drop down in the AudioToCC VST header turn on "Enable MIDI Output". Note: the standard VST header is not normally displayed on 32bit plug-ins in 64bit SONAR. To get the standard VST header hold the SHIFT key when opening the plug-in UI. The VST header opens in a separate window behind the plug-in UI.
    3. Add a plug-in with MIDI learn capability to the target track. Using the VST2/3 drop down in the plug-in VST header turn on "Enable MIDI Input". Note: this assumes an FX plug-in. Instead of a FX plug-in, this step could add a synth to the project. "Enable MIDI input" is enabled by default for a synth.
    4. Add a MIDI track with the input set to AudioToCC and the output set to the plug-in in step #3.
    5. While the transport is running enable MIDI learn in the plug-in in step #3 configuring the plug-in to respond to the MIDI data from AudioToCC.
    post edited by scook - 2014/10/02 02:54:14
    #6
    whereismybeer
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/03 17:03:24 (permalink)
    @
    thank you that clears up many things.
     
    @ scook
    that`s it, it worked..you made may day. Thank you very much.
     
    It all makes much more sense.. how sonar handles midi that is. But it created more questions actually. Is there a list of parameters in sonar that I can connect whatever I want to and more importantly is it possible in sonar to limit the range of the incoming midi message AND can I revert it..???? For example can I set a knob to move only between 50-20% of its actual range? (in this example moving backwards)
    Basically what I want to achieve is controlling the gain on an eq band by the incoming audio peak/rms. All gains go something above and below zero so I have to limit its range or initial state to default position. Is this possible in sonar????
     
    #7
    whereismybeer
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/03 17:11:15 (permalink)
    Also, if a plugin doesn`t have a midi learn function but actually is capable of that, where in sonar can I assign them??
    In FL studio there is a last touch parameter section in the menus, which is when clicked can be automated or assigned to basically anything. There is also a list of all parameters of all used plugins in the project in the browser where you can just easily select what you need. Is there an equivalent  in sonar or is there a workaround?
     
    thank you a lot..
     
    #8
    scook
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    Re: Envelope follower in Sonar-x? 2014/10/03 17:19:44 (permalink)
    Incoming audio and MIDI data are always recorded without modification. The one exception is a filter on incoming MIDI events in Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording.
     
     
    #9
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