Change project tempo [now with with step-by-step instructions]

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jih64
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2014/10/03 21:04:02 (permalink)

Change project tempo [now with with step-by-step instructions]

Hi, What I want to do is change the tempo of a song which contains midi and audio from 83 bpm to 90 bpm, now with Reaper all I would have to do is change the tempo from 83 to 90 in the transport and that's it, everything is same pitch everything just perfect and playing at 90 bpm. 
 When I try this with Sonar X3 Producer, not so, so I search for answers and all I have found so far is a lot of convoluted paths to achieve the simple result. Is there a away of doing this in Sonar as in Reaper which involves nothing more than click type in 90 and press enter ?
 
Thank you
#1

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    scook
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 21:04:57 (permalink)
    no
    #2
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 21:11:27 (permalink)
    oh
     
    Why not ? surely it would be more desirable than the methods I have seen seem, never mind, somewhat rhetorical.
     
    anyway, thank you for your quick and decisive response
     
     
    #3
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 21:43:59 (permalink)
    What would be the easiest way to achieve this ?
     
    I have owned Cakewalk products since the Pro Audio 8/9 days, but never really used them much, just kept up with the upgrades in case, I do love Dim Pro, Rapture and Z3ta 2 etc which I have as part of Sonar and also individually purchased. Every now and then I take Sonar for a spin, but always find myself going back, now days, and for a long time to Reaper, because of things such as this, which are so easily achieved, but for some reason seem unnecessarily complicated in Sonar.
    Another that bugged me was the need to bounce the drum track down to audio, with reaper I would just play my Alesis DM10 Pro kit through BFD or AD, tighten up any loose bits in the midi track, mix, apply effects as required and that's it, no need for extra steps, but with Sonar if I do that and export the final product, there is no drums, A small thing, having to bounce the track, but it all adds up, but I decided well, that's just the way it is and kept on going, still hanging in there, but I do prefer the easier route especially when there is no downside to it.
     
    Thanks again
    #4
    sock monkey
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 21:56:22 (permalink)
    Sonar exports all that you are hearing including soft synths.
    I have never had to bounce a midi track to audio. 
    You have your export somehow set up wrong. 
    I use SELECT NONE before exporting. This seems to always work , where as SELECT ALL should work, but often did not for me. 
    Try muting your master buss and see if all your tracks are routed there.Then check all the correct boxes are selected in the export dialog , I just use what ever the default was, Only thing I change is to 16 Bit for CD burning. 
    post edited by sock monkey - 2014/10/03 22:07:09

    Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio   
    Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.   
      
    #5
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 22:49:30 (permalink)
    Thanks, I found even in the official Cakewalk help stuff it says that you would have to bounce some soft synths, that's how I found out I had to do it. Do you use BFD ? in your stuff
     
    EDIT - I do recall some option that said "What you hear" but I think I used one that was what I had selected or something, but even though I did read in the help file or online help or something the need to bounce some soft synths, the way I did it it did export all other soft synyhs, but not BFD. But anyway my main issue is the ability to change the tempo of the entire song, midi and audio easily as in Reaper with just a click, 90 and enter, I have tried some of the convoluted methods I have found, but I'm not going through that, especially as a couple of the methods I tried didn't achieve the goal, Perhaps user error or my missing something, but when your used to just changing the tempo and it's all done, it makes this seem rather tedious and unnecessary.
    post edited by jih64 - 2014/10/03 23:08:54
    #6
    scook
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 22:55:28 (permalink)
    Are you confusing fast bounce/freeze/export with real time bounce/freeze/export? I know BFD2 did not like rendering in fast mode.
    post edited by scook - 2014/10/03 23:01:39
    #7
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/03 23:05:05 (permalink)
    No, I'm using BFD2 and/or BFD 3 (Read EDIT above) but that was just a minor issue, I can live with that
     
    Thanks
    #8
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 02:59:47 (permalink)
    No one click to change tempo unfortunately.
     
    To do that in Sonar
     
    1. Change project tempo as required.
    2. Select all (Ctrl + A)
    3. On one of the audio tracks hold down ctrl key and change edit filter to "Audio Transients"
    4. Press "A" (to open Audiosnap panel if it isn't already) 
    In Audiosnap panel...
    1. Make sure that "Average Tempo" is set to original tempo.
    2. Click on "Clip follows project tempo"
    3. Close audio snap
     
    Hope that helps.
    post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2014/10/04 03:06:14
    #9
    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 03:29:46 (permalink)
    I answered a similar question recently and told how to do it relatively easily with the fit time function, no AudioSnap required. I'll have to look it up. I don't remember it offhand because I don't need this function...I usually know what tempo I want but if I later decide to alter the tempo, I do it to the stereo mix using either the iZotope stretch algorithm if I want to preserve pitch, or Sonar's "varispeed" function for tape-style speed+pitch changes.
    post edited by Anderton - 2014/10/04 03:37:09

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #10
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 03:39:12 (permalink)
    Thank you, but unfortunately that doesn't do the trick, the results are, well quite undesirable, everything all over the place. I have tried quite a few things, similar to your suggestion, from forum posts and the online documentation, some involving far more work, but none of them achieve the goal. I think I will give up, and if I do another song with Sonar I'll just make sure the tempo is right at the start. But sometimes that is easier said than done, after listening to the final product a few times, sometimes you get a feeling that it may be 'dragging' a little, and would benefit from a little tempo rise, everything has it's 'sweet spot', and with Reaper, just change the tempo and bob's your uncle.
     
    I'll have one more try, then I'll either just export and set it all up in Reaper and do it in there (more work than I really want to do), or just leave it as is, thanks again.
    #11
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 03:45:23 (permalink)
    Thank you, what iZotope product are you referring to ? I have Alloy2, Ozone 5, and Nectar2 Production suite, which I am guessing would be likely, only just recently got them and not all that familiar as yet.
    #12
    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 03:51:59 (permalink)
    Of course if you're using groove clips, the audio will follow tempo, tempo changes, and pitch changes if you want. You don't have to adjust anything except insert markers to indicate key changes, it's an automatic process.

    Tried doing a google search on the post where I answered how to do the fit time process but no luck. Anyway you can just do what I did, create a test project, look in the documentation, and try to do it. Took me about 15 minutes to figure it out IIRC. I think the key was slip-editing the audio files to start at the beginning. Scook and Robert.Bone seem to be able to find anything, maybe they'll find my post...it was in the last month or two, I think.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #13
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 04:04:50 (permalink)
    jih64
    Thank you, but unfortunately that doesn't do the trick, the results are, well quite undesirable, everything all over the place. I have tried quite a few things, similar to your suggestion, from forum posts and the online documentation, some involving far more work, but none of them achieve the goal. I think I will give up, and if I do another song with Sonar I'll just make sure the tempo is right at the start. But sometimes that is easier said than done, after listening to the final product a few times, sometimes you get a feeling that it may be 'dragging' a little, and would benefit from a little tempo rise, everything has it's 'sweet spot', and with Reaper, just change the tempo and bob's your uncle.
     
    I'll have one more try, then I'll either just export and set it all up in Reaper and do it in there (more work than I really want to do), or just leave it as is, thanks again.




     
    Make sure you're setting the average tempo in the audiosnap panel (to the old tempo not new), that will give poor results if you don't do that.
     
    Also check that "Auto stretch" is checked in the "Clip follows project" drop down.
     
    Remember that a full render will sound better than the online render. I would have thought a few BPM would be okay on most systems though.
     
    Also check there's no audio clips or data locked.
     
    Of course system power makes a difference but the method I've outlined works fine here with the online render.
     
    There's a video on my youtube page that contains something similar but I'm working on a live recording in that so it's audio only but the process is more or less the same if there's MIDI in the project.
     
    Find that HERE
    #14
    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 04:07:53 (permalink)
    jih64
    Thank you, but unfortunately that doesn't do the trick, the results are, well quite undesirable, everything all over the place. I have tried quite a few things, similar to your suggestion, from forum posts and the online documentation, some involving far more work, but none of them achieve the goal. I think I will give up, and if I do another song with Sonar I'll just make sure the tempo is right at the start. But sometimes that is easier said than done, after listening to the final product a few times, sometimes you get a feeling that it may be 'dragging' a little, and would benefit from a little tempo rise, everything has it's 'sweet spot', and with Reaper, just change the tempo and bob's your uncle.


    True you can't just "change the tempo" except with groove clips or MIDI but it's really not that hard to change to a new tempo. Probably less work than importing into Reaper unless you have a lot of audio tracks.

    If no one finds my original post, which seemed to work fine for the person who needed the solution, I'll write it up again. It would make a good topic for my Sound on Sound column anyway.

    But if all you want is a slight change, like 2%, the varispeed trick works really well because it gives the same effect a ton of hit records used back in the day using variable speed tape recorders,

    As to iZotope, the stretch algorithm is already in Sonar. It's not a separate product. It gives better fidelity for stretching than real-time processing, with the tradeoff being that stretching takes longer because it's an offline process.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #15
    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 13:10:21 (permalink)
    As promised:
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3099513
     
    Since this question gets asked a lot, I added it to the Tip of the Day thread and included step-by-step instructions with screen shots. This method delivers very high-quality audio results, but is still pretty simple.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    Grem
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 16:09:40 (permalink)
    Craig to the rescue, again!!

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/04 20:00:08 (permalink)
    It's also how I get 34 second commercials to fit in 30 second slots 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #18
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/05 03:24:37 (permalink)
    Magnificent !!!
    Thank you very much Mr Anderton, that does the trick extremely well, very happy with that.
     
    Thank you to all the others who offered suggestions/help, it is greatly appreciated, seems like a very helpful little community you have here.
     
    Thanks all 
     
     
    #19
    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/05 03:31:42 (permalink)
    jih64
    Magnificent !!!
    Thank you very much Mr Anderton, that does the trick extremely well, very happy with that.
     
    Thank you to all the others who offered suggestions/help, it is greatly appreciated, seems like a very helpful little community you have here.
     
    Thanks all 

     
    It's a great community...welcome! I'm glad you found the tip helpful.
     
    Frankly, I learn more trying to answer peoples' questions than I do on my own 
     
    Oh, and you can call me Craig. "Hey you" has been known to work, too.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #20
    jih64
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/05 03:49:45 (permalink)
    lol, Craig
    yes it does seem like a great little community.
    After actually taking a little bit of time with Sonar, and not just turning back to what is familiar to me at the first hurdle, and actually completing a little project, I'm thinking I might stay with it this time around, only just scratching the surface, but liking it, steady steady, and I guess this will be what is familiar to me.
    Thanks again
    #21
    Anderton
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    Re: Change project tempo 2014/10/05 12:36:58 (permalink)
    I have pretty much every DAW in the universe installed on either my Windows or Mac computers, and could run in a session in any of them and often have. However, I use Sonar as my DAW...there's a reason why.
     
    FYI I wrote a book several years ago about a competing sequencer that I'm enough of a gentleman not to mention.  It sold really well and the publisher wanted me to do the same thing with a different DAW, so I said I'd like to do one on Sonar. They asked for the same length, same chapters, same number of screen shots, etc. I finished the book and they were upset because it was considerably shorter than the first book. I said that couldn't be, the contents were exactly the same. 
     
    When I put the two books side by side, I noticed that it took consistently fewer steps to do something in Sonar than in the other program. The cumulative effect made the book a lot shorter. I eventually had to pad it out with extra screen shots to hit the target length. I had always felt Sonar was faster than other programs, but this told me why.
     
    Of course there's a learning curve but once you "learn your instrument," you'll find you can do pretty much anything with Sonar. And the comping is outstanding - the best there is, IMHO.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #22
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