Helpful ReplyLockedDigital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser

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TomHelvey
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2014/10/13 21:13:26 (permalink)
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Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser

I'm getting some really nasty digital noise when I try to use the media browser.
To reproduce:
1. New project (Normal) Tempo: 130BPM
2. Turn input trim on preview bus down to -9.0 db
3. Set fader on preview bus to -3.0 db
4. Hit B to show the browser
5. Select the Media tab
6. Right click on the Media tab and make sure Auto Preview, Preview at Host Tempo, and Loop Preview are checked.
7. Navigate to Audio Library -> One Shots
8. Click on Kick_015.wav (if it doesn't auto play, hit the play button in the upper right hand corner).
Expected result: A normal sounding kick drum.
Actual result: A weird digitally overdriven and mangled kick drum.
Same settings:
9. Click on Kick_022.wav (if it doesn't auto play, hit the play button)
Expected result: Peak audio level at -12.00 db or less. (-9 + -3)
Actual result: Peak audio level at -8.9 db.
Is anyone else seeing this?
 
Edit: Added extra step in case media browser settings are different.
post edited by TomHelvey - 2014/10/13 22:11:01

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scook
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 21:29:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TomHelvey 2014/10/13 23:05:59
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Try turning preview at host tempo off in the Media tab options menu.
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TomHelvey
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 21:37:59 (permalink)
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scook
Try turning preview at host tempo off in the Media tab options menu.


Ok, that worked but it's a workaround. It should sound the same regardless of whether or not you are using the host tempo, I think this is a real bug. At least now I can hear what the samples sound like, thanks!

System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro
PCIe: UAD Octo
USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser
DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum
Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
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Splat
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 21:44:45 (permalink)
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>"It should sound the same regardless of whether or not you are using the host tempo".
 
Hmm documentation states: "When Preview at Host Tempo is selected, audio and MIDI groove clips follow the project’s tempo at the current Now time."
Doesn't say it stretches or anything (TBC), but if it does then it certainly won't sound the same.
 
Please confirm you are using X3E.

(Edited for typo).
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/10/13 21:54:21

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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scook
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 21:54:35 (permalink)
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 The version of SONAR won't matter. Using "Preview At Host Tempo" is always going to have artifacts with regular wave files because of the real time algorithms used in processing the clips.
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TomHelvey
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 21:59:27 (permalink)
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"Please confirm you are using X3E."
Yes, X3E.

System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro
PCIe: UAD Octo
USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser
DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum
Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 22:01:40 (permalink)
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Thanks. Although I don't really see this as a bug, right now I'd be curious to check it out.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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TomHelvey
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 22:11:35 (permalink)
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CakeAlexS
Thanks. Although I don't really see this as a bug, right now I'd be curious to check it out.

Undocumented behavior contrary to the expectation of the user is kind of the definition of a bug :)
It's all good.

System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro
PCIe: UAD Octo
USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser
DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum
Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 22:25:10 (permalink)
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An issue in documentation is not a bug it is an issue in documentation, unless the behaviour is unintended :) The documentation might not be 100% clear but it isn't wrong.

Anyway I'm just curious. Any improvements on algorithms that are used I suspect will be needed to be logged as enhancement.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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scook
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 22:28:07 (permalink)
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CakeAlexS
An issue in documentation is not a bug it is an issue in documentation, unless the behaviour is unintended

I seem to have had this same conversation with someone a while back. They did not share this view then. But I do agree omissions in documentation are not bugs. IIRC, the documention is silent on the effect of the "Preview At Host Tempo" setting on wave files.
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/13 22:35:51 (permalink)
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"I seem to have had this same conversation with someone a while back.They did not share this view then"

Really? Who with? Is it relevant here and does it contribute to the thread? Were you referring to product documentation?

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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TomHelvey
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/14 02:26:27 (permalink)
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CakeAlexS
An issue in documentation is not a bug it is an issue in documentation, unless the behaviour is unintended :) The documentation might not be 100% clear but it isn't wrong.

From my experience, doc bugs get filed in Jira, right along with code bugs. Either way, it's a bug.
I don't think they intended for it to sound like that. :)
P.S. Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro
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DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum
Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc.
 
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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2014/10/14 10:22:29 (permalink)
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I would expect a considerable difference in sound when ticking "preview at host tempo"... so not seeing a bug here.
 
However what I found interesting is if I drag the sample over to a track and create a groove clip out of it/loop it, the sound in the browser is considerably higher in pitch than in the groove clip (although the same sort of audible characteristics).

Unless I'm mistaken I would expect the preview to be the exact same sound and as groove clip?
I used X3E as well.

Edit - I tested this under a number of different sample rates and bit depths.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/10/14 10:36:32

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Re: Digital Overloading and Distortion in the Media Browser 2015/02/10 14:34:18 (permalink)
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Freezing the thread. If the OP wants to take this further they can bring it to the attention to the problems report forum:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Problem-Reports-f77.aspx
 
Cheers..

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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