Helpful Reply[Solved] Melodyne Issues?

Author
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
2014/10/07 13:11:29 (permalink)

[Solved] Melodyne Issues?

 I am trying out Melodyne essntial for the first time on a new project. It SCARES me. My normally stable set up teters on the brink of crashing, and actually has a couple of times. I move the buffer up to 1024 like it suggests, but after a couple of minutes it starts sputtering distorting, restarting, etc. I think I like the results, but I haven't been able to really sink my teeth into it. Some questions:
How big of a chunk have any of you been able to work with at a time?
If you work on little bits, do you have to bounce to tracks each time to get effects to stick?
Is there a way in Essential to split notes? I have a couple of two or three syllable chunks that I can't process because they are stuck together, even though they have different pitches.
Is there a way to control vibrato?
The pitch drift control doesn't do a thing. Is that an upgrade feature?
I read a post where a bunch of folks sang the praises of Melodyne vs. V Vocal. I really haven't used v vocal since my last machine 'cuz I couldn't get it to work without crashing, but now I have an i7 machine w/ 16Gigs of RAM and two hard drives and I felt, until now, that my machine was a rock. Here's an opportunity to win a new convert into the Melodyne fold. Some strategies that have worked for you would be appreciated.
Tim
#1
Splat
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8672
  • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
  • Location: Mars.
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? 2014/10/07 15:30:56 (permalink)
Are you on Sonar X3E?
Melodyne is fine for me without buffer changes, I just make sure I edit no more than a minute of clips at a time (I find it easier to manage that way as well i.e. verse/chorus/verse etc).

Cheers..

Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
#2
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? 2014/10/07 16:30:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Joey Adams [Cakewalk] 2014/10/08 12:04:07
orangesporanges
How big of a chunk have any of you been able to work with at a time?

 
I work with phrases and lines, not an entire vocal. It can do an entire vocal, but I prefer working on smaller chunks. 
 
If you work on little bits, do you have to bounce to tracks each time to get effects to stick?

 
As soon as the vocal sounds the way I want, I bounce it and move on.
 
Is there a way in Essential to split notes? I have a couple of two or three syllable chunks that I can't process because they are stuck together, even though they have different pitches.

 
I upgraded to Editor and once you do that, I don't know of any way to "downgrade" to Essential (not that i want to!!). So I can't verify, but I don't think so.
 
Is there a way to control vibrato?

 
In Editor, yes.
 
The pitch drift control doesn't do a thing. Is that an upgrade feature?

 
I'm pretty sure this works in Essential. The results may not be visually obvious, nor will be applicable to all the "blobs."
 
I read a post where a bunch of folks sang the praises of Melodyne vs. V Vocal. I really haven't used v vocal since my last machine 'cuz I couldn't get it to work without crashing, but now I have an i7 machine w/ 16Gigs of RAM and two hard drives and I felt, until now, that my machine was a rock. Here's an opportunity to win a new convert into the Melodyne fold. Some strategies that have worked for you would be appreciated.



I didn't have serious problems with V-Vocal and was hesitant to have to learn a new method. I never use V-Vocal anymore, although I did upgrade to Editor. It has all kinds of features I use all the time, like vibrato control, formant shifting, the polyphonic correction algorithm (used it to correct pitch on a slide guitar part and it preserved the slides), etc. The Percussive algorithm is great for leveling vocals.
 
Even Essential does good ADT effects and harmony creation (see my blog posts on these). 
 
For now, I highly recommend working on lines and phrases, not entire vocals. Melodyne is an amazing tool, very deep. The one caution I have is the more you transpose the pitch, the more likely the timing within the phrase will shift somewhat.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#3
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? 2014/10/07 17:11:46 (permalink)
While Melodyne/Sonar allows you to run many instances and I personally prefer to leave them open, I do believe it's more stable if you bounce them and only have one open while you're working on it.
#4
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? 2014/10/08 17:19:13 (permalink)
Thanks guys.
Alex, yes X3e. I decided to go ahead and experiment on a song I'm having one of my students record, where I laid down some vocals ("Aren't there any words?". so, I wrote and sang some, but threw it together pretty quick, perfect fodder for melodyne)
I used little chunks,1 part of one verse at a time and was able to step through the whole song with no problems.
I  guess what still bugs me, is while I can see the benefit of such a tool, it's kinda a roll the dice scenario, in that the least that can happen if it crashes, is you waste all the time up until that moment. The worst, I shudder to think. Why can't this thing just not be such a pig, that your not waiting for the axe to fall every time you open it? And opening multiple incidences to avoid bouncing to tracks every 5 min. is equally a crap shoot.
I know that sometimes there are better drivers/more stability with flagship products as opposed to "freebies", Craig, was that your experience with editor?
#5
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14070
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? 2014/10/08 17:35:56 (permalink)
I'm the wrong person to ask, because I didn't have problems with Essential except for a few times when V-Vocal was in a pre-existing project. But I don't know if the problems were due to Melodyne, V-Vocal, or an interaction. Editor has been equally smooth for me, I can count on it.  
 
My understanding is that the underlying architecture of the Melodyne products is similar, so I don't think it's a case where Celemony says "hey, let's let the Essential people crash and save the good stuff for Editor." They want you to have a positive experience so you'll upgrade. 
 
That said, how much memory do you have in your system? I've heard rumors of memory not being released properly although I wouldn't know how to test for that. Perhaps this might be why shorter sections work better?
 
But another consideration is I usually try to use software in a way that fits the product. To me, Melodyne is for touching up vocals, so I'll open a phrase, fix, bounce, and move on. I don't ask it to keep several multi-minute vocals open while I do other things. If I really, really think I'll need to re-visit a vocal, I'll just work on a copy and hide the original until/unless needed. Overall, I've found Melodyne Editor to be an exceptionally useful piece of software on many more levels than I expected (e.g., as a quick way to level vocals, or transpose acoustic guitar strumming).

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#6
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? 2014/10/09 11:41:08 (permalink)
I think I may have figured out what was going on with this one. I suspected that some of the audio files may have become fragmented, as certain tracks always seemed to be the ones misbehaving. I saved the whole thing as a bundle (this defrags the files) unpacked it and saved it again. That seemed to add some stability. Then I noticed that the audio was not recorded on my second hard drive. Copied over to that when I did a second save. Opened it up, turned on all the plugs I had temporarily disabled to test the load and everything was smooth. I think melodyne was just the straw that broke the camel's back, in this case. I primarily write insrumental contemp. Jazz, so I dont work with a lot of vocal material, so this was my maiden voyage with melodyne. Add to that the fact that I'm still learning it, and didn't know what to expect, it seemed to be the one variable in my otherwise stable formula.
The jury is still out, but I think I may have to investigate this further. It would give me the confidence to possibly do more vocal stuff, and the program really is prety cool to work with.
#7
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/20 13:22:37 (permalink)
Worked with Melodyne again. Opened it up to fix a mistake my student made in an otherwise good take, no problem bounced that, all good. Deleted old track once done and satisfied it was a keeper. Went to use it on a 2 beat phrase on the vocal track, After auditioning it a couple of times as I was tweaking it, the old sputtery "I'm on the brink of crashing" behavior began.(Oh , I did upgrade to Editor). Recall that I killed the old track that had melodyne as a region FX, so it's not a case of having multiple instances of it open. I was able to make the edits and bounce. Delete the track with region FX on it, and all was good, but Jheez! I had the buffer all the way up to 1024 samples(melodyne displays a warning screen telling me to do that.)What am I doing wrong?! I have an i7 machine, 2 hard disks, 16gigs of RAM, no indication that this is unstable, then I feel like I'm running down one of those rope bridges from cartoons that is falling apart just one step behind you. This can't be normal or acceptable behavior. Any tips,or suggestions? I tried using small regions for region FX, but if it can't handle a one or two measure phrase, what good is it?

Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 64bit, 3.4ghz i7CPU,  16gigs RAM, 1x 1TB SSD system drive 1 x 1TB HDD ( audio only)
#8
noynekker
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1235
  • Joined: 2012/01/12 01:09:45
  • Location: POCO, by the river, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/20 21:04:33 (permalink)
I regularly use Melodyne Editor for lead vocal and background vocal, and have very seldom needed to bounce or freeze any tracks. Also, I can have multiple instances of Melodyne open at once with very little CPU problems.
Your system seems similar to mine, so wondering if it is some configuration issue.
Thanks for now listing your system specs, but wonder what audio interface you might be using ?

Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cubase, RME Babyface Pro, Intel i7 3770K @3.5Ghz, Asus P8Z77-VPro/Thunderbolt, 32GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 660 Ti, 250 GB OS SSD, 2TB HDD samples, Win 10 Pro 64 bit, backed up by Macrium Reflect, Novation Impulse 61 Midi Key Controller, Tannoy Active Near Field Monitors, Guitars by Vantage, Gibson, Yamaki and Ovation.

 
#9
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/21 16:22:45 (permalink)
I'm using Native Instruments Komplete 6 audio. I usually can run it as low as 64 buffers, but melodyne tells me to run at 1024. I have zero stability issues unless melodyne is involved in which case it starts off smooth, then grows more and more unstable. FWIW, I am familiar with the Delta 66 ( I used the OMNI) the cards seem pretty similar to me, although I'm running the Komplete via USB(3 which uses the intel drivers , it has never crapped out on me). Right now I am running 1 instance of Roland TTS with multiple outputs (4 midi instruments) about 6 takes of my student's on a comp track, two of myself,1 stereo drums track. 1 track of vocals routed through TCHelicon Voice Live GTX. (that's not engaged, but I bring it up because I used it to generate two background voices on the same track as the lead) 1 track of Amber Piano and half a dozen plugs on the buses and some minor pro channel stuff at the track levels on most , but not all tracks. The behaior manifests itself as follows: Select region FX say two bars long max and as small as a couple of beats. Opens up Melodyne editor. audition it a few times, make subtle corrections, listen again. After listening to it 5 or six times , I start to get some stuttering and distortion, no necessarily a dropout, but I feel like I am knocking on the door. At this point I feel compelled to bounce any corrections to a separate track before something bad happens. I hate the idea of having a thoroughly robust system, that can take just about anything you throw at it  buckling under 1 instance of melodyne. I have to believe they know this plug is a CPU pig, otherwise they wouldn't tell you to up your buffers to 1024. So to cap this, I can use it and make effective changes, but I'm definitely playing it's game and when I start to hear it sputtering, yikes!

Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 64bit, 3.4ghz i7CPU,  16gigs RAM, 1x 1TB SSD system drive 1 x 1TB HDD ( audio only)
#10
noynekker
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1235
  • Joined: 2012/01/12 01:09:45
  • Location: POCO, by the river, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/21 22:37:04 (permalink)
My experience of using Melodyne inside Sonar has been excellent, sorry to hear you're having such troubles with it.
One difference between our systems is that I have an SSD system drive, and wonder if that might make any difference in Melodyne performance. 
Do you have wi-fi active while you're using Sonar ?
In Sonar Preferences - Audio - Configuration File - what setting do you have for ThreadSchedulingModel ?
(mine is set to 2)
If you watch the Windows Task Manager - Performance Tab while working in Melodyne, do you see large CPU spikes ?
It's possible some windows background service may be interfering.
 
Also, there may be some issues with Komplete audio 6 interface running thru USB3 ports
Some interesting reading from the NI forum site:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/komplete-audio-6-clicks-dropouts-cpu-spikes-every-15-seconds.217813/
 
 

Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cubase, RME Babyface Pro, Intel i7 3770K @3.5Ghz, Asus P8Z77-VPro/Thunderbolt, 32GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 660 Ti, 250 GB OS SSD, 2TB HDD samples, Win 10 Pro 64 bit, backed up by Macrium Reflect, Novation Impulse 61 Midi Key Controller, Tannoy Active Near Field Monitors, Guitars by Vantage, Gibson, Yamaki and Ovation.

 
#11
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/21 22:55:50 (permalink)
I agree with Craig but here are my thoughts as well:
 
• Pitch drift's effect depends on how the note was recorded.  If the pitch obviously varies from the root note—like it drops off, or goes sharp, or starts too low and slopes up—the tool will get it more centered on the note.  You may have to drag, then release the mouse button, and drag again because it makes a very small correction each time.  You may also have to use it and then the pitch modulation tool to fix a note.  Example: you fix a large drop off with the drift tool, but then the whole pitch line is above the desired pitch, so you will have to use a touch of modulation tool and maybe the pitch tool to get things sounding right. Sometimes a pitch slope is good but you have to use your ears and judgment to get the blob just the right amount above of below the set pitch so it sounds right.  You may also want to split the note and only use the drift tool on part of it. 
• Split is funny.  If you don't expand the Melodyne screen to make the blobs larger, you may have trouble splitting.  The split tool is dependent on screen resolution.  In other words, split may not work on a tiny blob until you use the magnifier in Melodyne to make the blobs bigger.  Even then, it may not always split as small a piece as you want.  When you don't think it's working, it may just be because the blob is too small or you are trying to cut off too small a piece.  This frustrates me, too, but it's how it is.
• I transfer the whole vocal at once and then work on it section by section, but that's just me because I am not able to bounce Melodyne very well—something weird about my machine.
• I usually keep ASIO lower—like 64 or 128—until I am ready to do the final mix.
 
You didn't ask this, but if you have any tempo changes, I strongly recommend you transfer the whole vocal into Melodyne all at once so it does not get out of sync.  I have a post somewhere on the Melodyne forum about this because I was having trouble with Melodyne getting out of sync after a tempo change.  If you have a problem with this, I will look for the post and Celemony's answer which was very helpful.
 
Melodyne takes some time to master but it is absolutely awesome once you get it.  You might note that Celemony's videos don't correct things as much as most producers do.  I think that is a public relations thing.

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#12
rebel007
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 926
  • Joined: 2013/07/17 11:24:29
  • Location: Victoria, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/21 23:45:38 (permalink)
I have an older machine, an i5 760. Melodyne can only process about 1 minute of audio, anything more than that and it seems to run out memory and locks up. I only have a 32 bit install so there is only 3.5GB of memory available in total. I have also had issues with fragmentation and on some projects it's worth my while doing a "save as" in order to keep the project intact, I do this every half hour or so on those projects which are large and have lots of plug ins involved. It's not every project, just the odd one that has certain plug ins that seem to be a common culprit on my machine.
When I use Melodyne I usually make a clone of the vocal track and work on this so I have the original to go back to if needed. I always bounce to clip after every edit, which are usually only single words or small phrases, however I have used Melodyne as a harmony generator and worked on an entire vocal line, phrase by phrase.
I'm not sure but I think I read somewhere that the dialogue box that suggests 1024 samples when you open Melodyne is not necessarily correct and personally I have never had to use anything but 256, which seems to be the sweet spot for my machine. Yours may differ and experimenting with different sizes is definitely worth the effort to find that sweet spot for your computer and interface.
I used to use V-Vocal but I find Melodyne simpler and more user friendly. I know that there are other users here that find V-Vocal easier to use for some effects, however it's not supported anymore so I think it's worthwhile persisting with Melodyne if you can.
There is split note tool in editor that is a one click thing so it's worthwhile finding that to work with. I've found it works simply and quickly.
If you put in some time with Melodyne I think you'll be rewarded with a tool that's fairly simple and you'll get great results. I've watched the tutorial videos but found I had to work with it myself in order to gain a real understanding of the program. Good Luck.

Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture
Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired)
CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
#13
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/22 12:14:02 (permalink)
noynekker, I don't seem to have any problems with KA6 and USB3.0. I have had this connected since day 1 this way, and have never had any problems with anything until I started working with melodyne. If I didn't like it so much, I would just quit using it. No internet, wi-fi or anything. I will check the thread scheduling and CPU use.  On the control bar everything looks cool. It doesn't look like I'm using even close to the limits of my system, and yet it behaves exactly like that is the problem. (see rebel007's post above, that describes my situation closely). I am going to try a different approach. I am going to record an acoustic guitar and vocal track only, and fart around with that, and see how far I can push it. I have too many variables in play with this current project (besides, I'm basically done with it, for now at least).
Oh, by the way konradh, I did find all of those tools and took the video "lessons", that's part of the problem, now I'm hooked! I had to fart around with it, and it does some things great, but it's not a magic fix all, you're right. I will report back.  

Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 64bit, 3.4ghz i7CPU,  16gigs RAM, 1x 1TB SSD system drive 1 x 1TB HDD ( audio only)
#14
orangesporanges
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 342
  • Joined: 2007/02/22 16:13:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/22 20:19:14 (permalink)
Thread Schedule Model to 2 did the trick(I was on 1). I had to bump up to 1024 though 'cuz once I started putting it through the paces at 64 samples it started crackling a bit (no dropouts though). I may be able to get by with less, but I decided not to tempt the fates. I loaded the whole vocal track (7:00 min) in and started working on gobs of blobs. complete success!  1024 samples is totally acceptable to me as this is where I start the mixing process, with cleanup. (besides, if I need to continue tracking I can always move it back and bypass the region effect.)Thanks for hanging in there with me guys!

Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 64bit, 3.4ghz i7CPU,  16gigs RAM, 1x 1TB SSD system drive 1 x 1TB HDD ( audio only)
#15
noynekker
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1235
  • Joined: 2012/01/12 01:09:45
  • Location: POCO, by the river, Canada
  • Status: offline
Re: Melodyne Issues? UPDATE 2014/10/22 21:57:42 (permalink)
Great news . . . glad you got Melodyne working better on your system. Cakewalk specifically baked X3 that way with ARA to work inside Sonar, but I guess it still may need some tweaks to work on every type of configuration.

Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cubase, RME Babyface Pro, Intel i7 3770K @3.5Ghz, Asus P8Z77-VPro/Thunderbolt, 32GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 660 Ti, 250 GB OS SSD, 2TB HDD samples, Win 10 Pro 64 bit, backed up by Macrium Reflect, Novation Impulse 61 Midi Key Controller, Tannoy Active Near Field Monitors, Guitars by Vantage, Gibson, Yamaki and Ovation.

 
#16
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1