ReTracer
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Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
Hi,
I wondered if there's a checklist/procedure for discovering the cause of random crashes that have started to occur in my version of Sonar? It's doing my head in. I've got a project at the moment which involves playing a very exhausting classical work which takes a lot out of me, and once I get back to the computer it's a crushing blow to find that Sonar has frozen and lost everything. It's been happening for a couple of weeks and now I'm finding the stress of it is affecting my ability to play.
I've found that it sometimes crashes even when sitting there doing nothing, and I have a managed to grab one minidump that was saved on one crash by Sonar. Most of the time it crashes without any recourse for further information.
As I'm using Sonar 8.5 still, the current 'support' from Cakewalk is non-existent (it's not an option on their support form).
Any advice gratefully received.
Sonar 8.5 Producer
Windows 7 Home Premium
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3630QM CPU @ 2.40 Ghz
RAM: 16 GB
64-bit Operating System
K
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 08:32:45
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Random crashes are always hard to pin down. If you have a lot of FX in it, especially third party, I would start by loading the project in "Safe Mode" (Hold down the shift key while opening). If it then loads and runs okay at least you then know it is an FX of some sort.
The trick is then to work out which one and that is a matter or trial and error. Perhaps load half of them and see what happens. The problem will either be in the first half of the FX or not. Doesn't matter if it is or isn't you've halved the search area already. Repeat that process with half of the suspect half (i.e. 25% of the plugins). Keep repeating that process until you've narrowed it down to one.
Of course if it isn't a plugin at least you've eliminated those but in my experience that's where I'd start.
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 08:38:45
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Thanks FBB, no, it's not plugins - this is a straight MIDI recording using a Roland V-Piano. There are thousands of notes, and the pedal pumps in a lot of data too. But it should be a doddle for Sonar to handle.
I will try the safe mode tip, thanks for that!
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Splat 
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 08:39:22
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Have you checked the windows event viewer? Might be good to paste the error here. Also in case you are considering upgrading: http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/category.aspx?categoryID=9 In general it is good to get up to a base system then resume further troubleshooting: 1) Update the chipset drivers and firmware of your motherboard. Google Intel driver update utility. 2) Update the display drivers of your display adapter from their third party site (what is the make and model?). 3) Update the firmware and driver of your audio interface (please supply details here). 4) Run windows update several times, and check the optional updates. 5) Make sure Sonar is on 8.5.3 6) Defrag. 7) After that check latencymon for further clues. Also look out for per project crashes (i.e. plugin issues)... Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Wookiee
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 08:53:28
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The other thought that springs to mind is "What was the last thing I changed before this started happening" undo that change and work back from there. Hope you resolve your problem soon.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:01:36
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Thanks Alex, lots to follow up here.
The motherboard chipset reports no updates
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670MX 9.18.13.4411 - possible update required there although this one is September 9
Audio interface - currently connecting straight from the piano through to the computer via the piano's USB. My external soundcard (M-Audio Firewire 410) is not connected. Onboard audio is
Realtek High Definition Audio
Driver 6.0.1.6662
Date 19/06/2012
Windows reports that it is 'up to date' though I'll browse for the manufacturer's site.
Now I have to get my head around the event viewer.
Thank you.
K
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:05:05
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Wookiee - wish I knew. It happened once, I was away from the studio on other projects for several days, it didn't happen, then it did. Hard to pinpoint by memory what aspect was changed in the periods inbetween. Windows update? The V-Piano's USB? I can try using my other set up for a while (same computer) and see if the crashes continue - if not, it's the V-Piano.
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Beagle
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:07:41
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ReTracer
Thanks Alex, lots to follow up here.
The motherboard chipset reports no updates
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670MX 9.18.13.4411 - possible update required there although this one is September 9
Audio interface - currently connecting straight from the piano through to the computer via the piano's USB. My external soundcard (M-Audio Firewire 410) is not connected. Onboard audio is
Realtek High Definition Audio
Driver 6.0.1.6662
Date 19/06/2012
Windows reports that it is 'up to date' though I'll browse for the manufacturer's site.
Now I have to get my head around the event viewer.
Thank you.
K
It might be the soundcard drivers causing your problem. try using the M-audio FW410 instead.
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:16:13
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Would that be the case? As i'm not using any audio data on the project - I can run it even with the audio engine switched off - would it matter at all which soundcard is being used? Or does Sonar use the audio card for other tasks, such as timecode etc. Sorry for my ignorance here.
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Brando
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:17:05
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ReTracer
Audio interface - currently connecting straight from the piano through to the computer via the piano's USB. My external soundcard (M-Audio Firewire 410) is not connected. Onboard audio is
Realtek High Definition Audio
Driver 6.0.1.6662
Date 19/06/2012
Windows reports that it is 'up to date' though I'll browse for the manufacturer's site.
Your Realtek is definitely the weakest link. What drivers? Why not hook up the m audio? I would deselect Realtek in sonar, use the m audio and make sure you don't have asio4all installed etc
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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Brando
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:18:18
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Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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Beagle
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:20:24
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ReTracer
Would that be the case? As i'm not using any audio data on the project - I can run it even with the audio engine switched off - would it matter at all which soundcard is being used? Or does Sonar use the audio card for other tasks, such as timecode etc. Sorry for my ignorance here.
If you're not using the output at all, (including no softsynths), then I'm not sure what sonar needs the soundcard drivers for, but I would still try using the 410 to see if that's what's causing the crashes. I am certain that sonar DOES still access the drivers even if it's only once at start up, but maybe more than that.
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dlion16
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:40:25
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:44:26
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Beagle
If you're not using the output at all, (including no softsynths), then I'm not sure what sonar needs the soundcard drivers for, but I would still try using the 410 to see if that's what's causing the crashes. I am certain that sonar DOES still access the drivers even if it's only once at start up, but maybe more than that.
I'll definitely experiment with this but it will have to wait - the 410 is at a different location where I have my main studio - here, it's just me, the computer, and the piano (V-Piano). Great for uncluttered creativity, not so great when random crashes occur! At the moment I'm trying out different settings for the audio driver mode - WDM/KS - Works OK WASAPI (doesn't work at all) ASIO - works but ignores any metronome count in. MME (32-bit) (Works but it's on this that the crashes were first occuring.) I ended up on the MME driver mode because several months ago I had timing issues on WDM and ASIO. Notes triggering way out of time. WDM and ASIO seem to be OK at the moment. It's a dark art.
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:46:50
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lawp
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 09:47:31
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try recording into a different daw - take the v-piano out of the equation
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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ReTracer
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 10:41:54
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Well so far it's operating much more stably, simply through changing the Audio driver mode to ASIO. Several months ago I was having so much trouble with V-piano + ASIO or V-piano + WDM that I ended up trying the MME drivers which 'resolved' the problem. For this project and using ASIO, I can't even start the audio engine within Cakewalk, which is fine as it is not needed - the output just says 'Missing: Realtek HD Audio out'.
I'll keep testing, and using the WDM mode option too.
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mettelus
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 17:10:02
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I am not clear on your system/workflow, but another quick thing to check is that your system does not allow USB ports to go idle. This can create nasty issues and would also cause the issue you saw with the computer idle. Windows is not elegant about idling a USB port and bringing it back online properly.
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Anderton
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/16 18:12:26
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ReTracer
dlion16
check this out and disable the realtek.
http://forum.cakewalk.com...this-Out-m3103263.aspx
OK - fascinating, that's a great lead! Thank you.
FYI - I will be posting the finalized, condensed, and vetted version of this technique in the Tip of the Week thread. I remain amazed at how much of a difference it has made.
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/22 00:41:21
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download and install WhoCrashed.
The crash dumps that are stored in the "cave" of user\appdata\roaming\cakewalk,,,,,.. will need to be moved into the windows\minidump folder for whocrashed to be happy
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Splat
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Re: Isolating causes for Sonar Crashes
2014/10/22 16:55:17
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As many people have suggested get rid of Realtek and use the MAudio. And then check point 3 of my last post... Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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