sounds not playing where I want?

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Kamilion
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2014/10/22 19:09:16 (permalink)

sounds not playing where I want?

Please read carefully>> I have sonar X3 set up to select patches from my roland fantom xa so I can edit the song that I made from my fantom in the X3.  All my tracks are set as midi tracks in the X3. output in the track inspector is set to the midi connection that I have going from my fantom to the computer.
 
1st problem:  When I press play on the X3, the song plays back on my fantom and NOT on the X3.  How do I get the song to play on the X3 and not the fantom?  (I'm pretty sure it's a matter of turning something on or off, but don't know where that is).  
 
2nd problem:  It is not showing the RHYTHM (i.e. drum kits) section of my keyboard, only patches such as guitars..does anybody know why and how I can get the X3 to populate my RHYTHM section of my keyboard?
 
 
post edited by Kamilion - 2014/10/22 19:43:36

Kamilion  
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    Karyn
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/22 19:19:22 (permalink)

    It did not do this at first when I had the outputs in the track inspector set to the Cakewalk TT1 plug in, it instead played the midi notes ON the X3.

    Your fantom is something that produces sounds, TTS-1 is something that produces sounds.

    If you want to hear the TTS-1 select it and not the fantom.

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    #2
    Kamilion
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/22 19:51:27 (permalink)
    no I do not want to hear the TTS-1, I want to hear the fantom sounds...maybe I should not have given that example.. my fault.
    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 00:38:46 (permalink)
    If you are trying to record the actual AUDIO produced by your Fantom, then you need to run audio cables from your Fantom to input jacks on your audio interface, then assign audio tracks in Sonar to use those corresponding inputs from the audio interface.
     
    As far as the rhythm goes, I imagine it works similar to how one of my keyboards works - a Yamaha YPG-235 portable digital keyboard.  It has a whole bunch of internal drum beat loops that can play locally on the keyboard, and then I can play other sounds over the top of those beats.  If I recall correctly, those were a bit goofy to get imported into Sonar, and there is likely some set of instructions for getting those from your Fantom in the user manual, or on the web site.
     
    I hope any of the above helps - please let me know if I missed the boat on understanding your issues, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #4
    Kamilion
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 01:26:07 (permalink)
    Hey Bob,  I created a song in my fantom and saved it as a standard midi file(SMF) using format 1 and then dragged and dropped the file into the X3.  Since it's a format 1, it separated all the tracks onto 16 different midi channels in the X3 as I wanted.  What I am trying to do now is mix the song and then export it.  I cannot even get the song to play in the X3...instead when I press play on the X3 the song plays using the fantoms speakers and that's not what I want.  I want to use my computer's speakers to hear the song.  Also, now when I play the same song directly on my fantom by pressing play on my fantom, now the song is playing back in a distorted type fashion.  I don't get it.  There's something I'm missing or messing up in the signal flow
    #5
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 01:48:42 (permalink)
    As MIDI has no sound, you can hear the song in X3 only (as Robert wrote)
     
    - By connecting the audio cables from your keyboard to your sound card and to a stereo- or two mono tracks ( using that method you can only get a stereo-file of the song. If you want each track to remain separate you need to record them one-by-one. I assume the keyboard only has L/R audio out.)
    This method is not suitable for mixing, as you can not use X3s per track audio FX, only the Limited MIDI-effects.
    If you record each track separately via the keyboard, then all the mixing takes place inside X3s audio tracks.
    So mixing the whole song inside your keyboard workstation might be more practical than this option.
     
    - or by using a soft synth inside X3. I would absolutely recommend this, if you have soft synths that have the sounds you want.

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    #6
    Anderton
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 02:15:19 (permalink)
    MIDI is data, not audio. You cannot hear MIDI unless it feeds something that can produce audio...like the Fantom, or a virtual synthesizer loaded in Sonar.

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    Kamilion
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 02:47:38 (permalink)
    Thanks guys for getting back.  I know midi is not audio, but the X3 lets you import a smf file and then open up a synth track and route the outputs in the track inspector to the cakewalk TTS.   Only instead of doing that, this time I have it to where I can choose my fantom patches directly from the X3 in the track inspector "c", "b", and "p" dropdown boxes to play the patches instead of the non audio midi tracks... it should play the song as I recorded it. I successfully played a midi file through there that I imported from my fantom folder, but that file was a tester so now I'm trying it with a song and I can't get it to do it again.  Technical support walked me thru it, but I hit a snag after I hung up with them so that's why I'm here now since they're closed and I want to get this song done.  
     
    At 1st I was recording each track 1 by 1 into the X3, but that's too much of a hassle so I know at this day in age there has to be an easier way.  Unfortunately, the fantom uses sample time, which is very limited, in order to save a song as a .wav file or I would do that
     
    Kalle, it's a lot harder to mix in my fantom because of the small LCD screen and also I like to arrange tracks as you can do in fl studio by clicking and dragging which makes it far more easier for a complex arranger such as myself.
    #8
    Boydie
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 03:37:19 (permalink)
    It sounds like you haven't yet got your head around a specific concept of MIDI and AUDIO

    You have imported the MIDI file into SONAR - as you know MIDI is just data and contains the instructions for something else to play the sounds

    In your case you seem to want to use the sounds produced by the fantom

    It sounds like this is exactly what is happening - Sonar is outputting the MIDI file to the Fantom and the Fantom is making the sounds (coming through the Fantom speakers) - so you could edit the MIDI file in Sonar and the Fantom would play the changes

    If you want to MIX within Sonar you need the AUDIO to be within Sonar

    If you still want to use the Fantom sounds you will need to make an AUDIO connection from the Fantom to Sonar so that you can record the different MIDI parts onto separate tracks - you may need to record each part separately (is soloing MIDI tracks) if you only have a stereo audio output on your Fantom to record the AUDIO onto separate tracks so you can mix/process them individually (tweaks to the MIDI file would no longer be reflected as you have recorded the audio so you would need to repeat the recording process)

    You will now hear the parts through Sonar and you mix away


    Alternatively, you can use a "soft synth" within Sonar so that it plays the MIDI file using a virtual instrument (eg the TTS1, Kontakt etc.) - this then effectively does a "live recording" of audio from the soft synth each time the MIDI file plays - this would be the simplest way of doing it but you wouldn't be getting your Fantom sounds - perhaps there is a Fantom soft synth/library out there?


    If the Fantom had multiple AUDIO outputs (and you audio interface had multiple audio inputs) you could hook up your Fantom to act in a similar way to a soft synth but I doubt the Fantom will have 16 individual audio outputs)

    A regarding the drums...
    drums are traditionally assigned to MIDI channel 10 so I would try setting your channel to this and then having a look around - this often caught me out when I was starting out

    Hope this helps
    #9
    Kamilion
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 03:59:50 (permalink)
    Thanks alot Boydie, yea tonight it looks like I'm going to have to record each track seperately
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    57Gregy
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 10:16:38 (permalink)
    If you imported the Fantom's Instrument Definition into SONAR, that doesn't mean SONAR will produce the sounds in the computer; it just means you can select the Fantom patches in SONAR to play them through the Fantom.

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    #11
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 10:39:58 (permalink)

    2nd problem:  It is not showing the RHYTHM (i.e. drum kits) section of my keyboard, only patches such as guitars..does anybody know why and how I can get the X3 to populate my RHYTHM section of my keyboard?
     

     
    If the channel selection (10) as suggested by Greg doesn't work you either need to assign the existing instrument file (INS) to channel 10 or you may need to import the Rhythm part of the Fantom's INS file, assuming it has one. If not it's relatively easy, although a little tedious to write one.
     
    Spookily enough I've been making a bespoke tutorial video for a client on that very subject this afternoon, although for another piece of Roland kit.
    #12
    tlw
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 18:27:06 (permalink)
    What everyone else says.

    Also, the "distorted" sound you get when playing the Fantom could be because the Fantom is sending to a MIDI track in Sonar, which Sonar is sending (echoing) back to the Fantom. If, at the same time, the Fantom's keyboard is also giving MIDI instructions to the Fantom's synth the sunth will get two sets of MIDI telling it what to do.

    The Fantom's sound generator will receive a first set of MIDi instructions from the Fantom keyboard followed very quickly afterwards by the MIDI coming from Sonar. So everything gets played twice.

    The usual answer is to set a synth to MIDI "local control off" - just about every synth other than pure analogue voltage-controlled ones (which don't use MIDI at all) have this setting available, if the Fantom has it will be in the manual somewhere. This disconnects the keyboard from the synth so when you play the MIDI goes out of the Fantom to Sonar then Sonar sends the MIDI back to the Fantom (using the "input echo" switch on the MIDI track you are recording to). That way notes only get played once.

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    #13
    John
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    Re: sounds not playing where I want? 2014/10/23 19:33:22 (permalink)
    When you use a hardware synth it is that synth that generates sound not Sonar.
     
    I have hardware synths a Roland XV 5080 an SC 8850 and a Boss DR770. All three are connected via MIDI cables to Sonar and audio cables to a mixer. The mixer is also connected to Sonar via USB.
     
    First don't import the SMF. Open it. Its a native format to Sonar. If you import you lose tempo information. 
     
    What you want is the play the MIDI file back and trigger your Fantom to play the sounds. I suggest you do each track as a solo to and record the audio from the Fantom to a new audio track. Do this for each MIDI track. Solo and record.
     
    You will end up with all audio in Sonar. Mute all the MIDI tracks and just work with your recorded audio tracks. Ten MIDI tracks will end up being ten audio tracks using this technique. Yes it is tedious. But its the only way to get a multi track recording.   
     
    If you record the output of the Fantom when all the MIDI tracks are playing you will get one stereo track with all the audio in it. No mixing can be done.
     
    As far as setting up an instrument definition file for your Fantom see page 1231 in your Sonar X3 manual. 
     
    I can help with this but you should already have the needed files from Roland.
     

    Best
    John
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