Helpful ReplyGetting started with TH2 amp simulator

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mrpippy2
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2014/10/23 14:00:44 (permalink)

Getting started with TH2 amp simulator

Hello all,
 
     I'm hoping to start using the TH2 amp simulator to affect the guitar sound AS I'm playing.  I know people often record the clean sound and add the amp sim later, allowing for more flexibility.  I've literally never plugged anything into my Focusrite interface inputs (having 2 babies in the last year has severely impeded my time making music!), so I really have no idea how to use the TH2 to process the incoming sound.  Can anyone give me a few pointers on how I can make this happen?  Ideally, I could hear the processed sound but record the clean sound, allowing me to perhaps alter the tone later.  If that is uber-complicated, recording the processed tone is fine; I would just have to ensure a good tone earlier on in the process.  Thanks so much for any help!
 
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#1
scook
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/23 14:19:35 (permalink)
Set the mixing latency as low as it will go, create a track for the guitar with input set to the interface channel the guitar is connected to, add TH2 to the track, enable input echo for the track and record. This will record the clean signal and allow you to hear the TH2 processed signal.
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Anderton
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/23 14:48:38 (permalink)
FWIW virtually all amp sims process the sound on playback. It's basically like re-amping.

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stevec
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/25 11:54:28 (permalink)
Just to add...  the Input Echo button referred to by scook is how you hear the effect in real-time, while the track itself is still recorded clean because as Craig stated amp sims do affect the signal on playback.   IOW, you'd have a clean recorded track with or without Input Echo enabled, it's just how you hear the signal while you're playing that changes.

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Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/25 16:30:29 (permalink)
Are you using TH2 Producer or the full version of TH2? If you aren't using TH2 full you are missing the best amps in the sim. The Brunetti amps in TH2 full version are worth the upgrade price alone. TH2 has become my goto amp sim and it always has the Brunetti amps loaded and ready. The producer version is good but the full version is mindblowing!

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yellowcake64
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/26 06:36:40 (permalink)
Can I just make sure I'm understanding this correctly guys. I haven't had chance to have a play with TH2 yet due to personal temporary circumstances (and I've never used amp sims before). You actually record the amp clean and add the effect later? How on earth does that work? I play totally differently when using a distorted sound than I do when playing clean and I'd need to hear the sound 'live' as it would affect the way I play. I'd also need to it record what I'm hearing!

I suspect as usual I'm misunderstanding something here 😳

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/26 06:42:01 (permalink)
As Stevec (post #4) wrote, you record the clean signal, but you hear the effect while you record. SONAR always records only the clean signal.

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gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/26 07:38:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dwardzala 2014/10/26 10:15:38
Congrats on your children!! Playing electric through an amp sim has made my life as a parent much richer. I'm sure it will help you escape a little too.
 
1. Run the Guitar cable from the guitar to the Focusrite interface (don't mic your own amp).
2. Launch Sonar and insert a single audio track into a new project.
3. Set the input for the audio track (at the bottom of the track inspector) to match the input from your interface that your guitar is plugged into. **tip: you might have to click to turn off the pro channel tab to see where to set the input on your track.
4. Click the Input Echo button on the track so that you can now hear the completely clean sound of your guitar. (If there is a lag between the time you play a note and the time you hear it then reduce the latency on your interface by going to
Preferences > Audio > Playback and Recording and set Driver Mode = Asio.
Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings > Click the Asio Panel button and reduce the buffer size).
5. switch the track inspector to the Pro Channel View by clicking Pro Channel at the top of the track.
6. Drag TH2 from the browser window (Hit B to see it if you can't. TH2 will be under Plugins > Audio FX > VST2 > Overloud) to the Pro Channel.
7. Now when you play a note, you hear it through TH2.
8. Click the Master button at the top left. If you are playing a guitar with single coil pickups (like a strat) select Input = Low. If you are playing a guitar with humbuckers (Les Paul) select input=high.
9. Click the In Lev button at the top left of the TH2 window. This lets you know if TH2 is getting enough signal. Now, I usually let my interface auto set the level for the recording with a good 6 dB of head room. This is less signal than TH2 likes, so I often increase the Gain Nob on the Track inspector until the In Lev is showing in the GOOD range. (This trick means you don't clip and you also get the most out of TH2). (Also, don't forget to turn your guitar all the way up to 10 on the guitar body. No reason not to send a loud signal.)
10. Next click the Tuner button to the right of the In Lev button and tune up.
11. On the right hand side, third button down, click SEARCH.
12. Play the guitar while clicking on the different preset choices. Click Load Sound to import the whole row of presets to the main interface so you can switch between them. Load Variation only replaces the selected individual sound (not the row) with the currently selected sound in the main interface.
 
Advanced trick: Credit to Craig Anderton 
1. Drag the EQ in the pro channel BEFORE the TH2.
2. Enable the EQ and the Low Pass (LP) filter (bottom of the EQ).
3. Set the LP Slope around 12 and slowly bring down the LP Frequency while playing.
... see if this doesn't tame some of the high end stuff created by TH2. TH2 emulates nicer microphones than most of us have. When you record an amp with a cheap mic, it doesn't have all that high end. Doing this can help get sounds more like what you are used to hearing.
 
 ** When Craig Anderton mentions 'Re-Amping' he is describing the technique of recording a guitar direct to an interface and then playing just that signal and sending it to a Real Amplifier and then tweaking that amplifier and recording it with microphones. This is somewhat commonly done. Often, when guitarists want to hear their amps and engineers want to be able to have the dry signal, they take the dry signal and then send it to the guitarists Amp. Then they also mic the amp. This gives you the best of both worlds. If the recording of the guitarists amp turns out to be awesome, you're done. If not, you can make changes by either re-recording the guitarists amp or using an in the box effect like TH2 to augment it.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/26 08:12:16

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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dwardzala
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/26 10:16:05 (permalink)
Greg's post above is a fantastic step by step guide.

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Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/26 10:45:46 (permalink)
Simply put about the re-amping, the track in Sonar will always be the clean straight direct sound. After you have recorded with the amp you hear when you were tracking you can playback the track and try the multitude of different amps or change the settings or FX or even a completely different amp sim. You will always have the original recorded guitar track unless you delete it.
 

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/26 13:38:48 (permalink)
dwardzala
Greg's post above is a fantastic step by step guide.




It really is. I always wonder how some have the patience to construct those detailed, long (and helpful) posts, when all that is in the manual and tutorials :o/  :o).
I hope  the "target group" can appreciate that enough.
 

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mrpippy2
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/28 14:53:10 (permalink)
Wow, I finally have the chance to sit down (sans babies) and run my Les Paul into Sonar, and I look back to see all these helpful posts.  I'm very grateful to all of you.  And gswitz, what can I say?  Thanks a ton.  Now let's give this a shot...

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mrpippy2
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/28 15:33:24 (permalink)
... and it worked like a charm.  After I turned Input Echo on, of course.  Somehow I missed that step at first and was starting to wonder what was wrong.  I need to check out the presets and work through the last part of Greg's post, but I'm really happy right now, so thanks a ton!  And Kalle, I think I'm part of that "target group" now!  I know what you're saying though.  I wish I had the time to RTFM.  I used to.  Thankfully, this forum is populated by people who are happy to patiently help people like me who, for one reason or another, can't or won't figure it out for themselves.  And for that I'm grateful.

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RobertB
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/28 19:03:22 (permalink)
gswitz
(Also, don't forget to turn your guitar all the way up to 10 on the guitar body. No reason not to send a loud signal.)
 



Great step-by-step from Greg, but I had to cringe when I got to this line.
Those knobs are there for a reason, and 10(or 11) is not usually the best position.
More often than not, this can lead to some flatulence in the sound from the amp sim.
Your tone starts at the guitar, and it can have a dramatic effect on how a given preset in the amp sim responds.
You may find that many presets sound better with the guitar volume knobs set surprisingly low.
The cool thing is you can play with it while listening with input monitor turned on.
Like yellowcake, I tend to play the effect, so input monitor is essential.
Congrats on getting some free time (and some sleep). Mine are all grown now, but I remember those days.

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gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/28 20:42:00 (permalink)
fwiw, I think Greg might be Geoff. ;-)
 
RobertB, it's interesting that you don't leave the guitar at 10.  I had always considered that by turning it down you are really just adding noise. You can change the drive into the Amp Sim with the gain nob.
 
I'm going to compare notes recorded at different volume settings on the guitar and normalize to the same volume for comparison.
 
You have me curious.
 
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20141029_GuitarVolume.mp3
 

 
I did this several times with different tone settings. To tell the truth it just sounds like more noise to me as you turn down the volume on the guitar. There's a little difference in the attack on the notes (mostly me). But I can't hear a big tonal change from the guitar. Can you?
 
I am steadily lowering the volume each time. That's the only real change. I suppose there may be some small difference in tone. It's subtle for sure.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/28 20:54:53

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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RobertB
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/28 22:54:17 (permalink)
Oops. Sorry about the name thing Geoff.
You might have a bad pot on that guitar. You shouldn't be getting that kind of noise.
On an LP, there are two volume pots, and two tone pots.
By adjusting the volume/tone balance, you can go from a thick and buttery sound to very thin and brittle.
This, in turn, can have a dramatic effect on what the amp sim sounds. like.
Depending on what I am after, the pots are generally set somewhere from 3 to 7.
Good question G,and it's open for dialogue.

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Anderton
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/28 22:59:43 (permalink)
I like amp sims that can "clean up" when you turn down the volume, like a real amp. Sometimes the amp will do this itself, sometimes you have to do the right programming.

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gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 06:53:57 (permalink)
Craig, when you record for reamping, do you ever play the guitar with volume less than ten on a guitar with only one volume nob?

Really this question is for everyone. Better to turn down the gain in sonar or turn down the guitar volume?

Robert b, of course my tone nobs have a big effect as well as the pickup switch. In this case I was only interested in how the volume nob itself changes the tone.

My strat is a 1995 American with gold lace sensor pickups. The pots are old, but I've never considered them noisy. I clean them.

I'm presuming that the volume nob is not being touched during the performance. Obviously, When part of the performance, it must be used.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/29 07:43:52

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 07:20:19 (permalink)
Robert with your lp, adjusting the volumes differently makes sense because you are balancing the pickups in that case. On my strat with only one volume nob, it doesn't appear to change the tone, just the noise to signal.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 07:26:59 (permalink)
Robert, further, if you aren't adjusting the volumes during the performance, it might make sense to put the higher of the two at ten. Keep them in relative balance but keep noise low as possible too.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/29 07:42:19

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 07:32:11 (permalink)
I want a Les Paul.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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mettelus
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 07:33:13 (permalink)
I tend to leave volume at 10 as well. The best signal to noise ratio at the source tends to help the signal chain along. Gain staging to reduce the signal is often more effective than amping it (since it also raises the noise level). The volume knob can add color though.

Edit - I only have a master volume knob as well... I cannot mix levels of the 4 pickups on the guitar.

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Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 08:14:06 (permalink)
I hope no one has forgotten that before you actually use TH2 you must hit the input level button in the top left hand corner. A window opens and it asks you explicitly to play your guitar at the loudest level possible and it will show and tell you when you have reached the optimum level for TH2 to work correctly. I usually crank all the knobs on the guitar wide open and slam a power chord in to it. I have found that when it says ride your gain on the guitar for optimum effect that TH2 reacts very much like a real tube amp. Also don't forget about the Master panel button next to the input level button. It is also very crucial to how TH2 responds to your volume and touch.

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bitflipper
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 09:32:45 (permalink)
There is functionally no difference, in terms of added harmonics, between turning the instrument's volume up to 10 and turning the input level on the amp sim down to taste, versus adjusting the instrument volume to determine the amount of overdrive you get. The amplifier or amp sim won't know the difference.
 
However, standard gain-staging principles normally call for a hot signal coming in, for a better signal-to-noise ratio. You're also lowering the output impedance of the instrument when you turn the volume knob down, which can have a small effect on tone. Keeping the volume at 100% also eliminates any noise that might be added by the potentiometer itself (even a clean one), since it's essentially out of the circuit. 
 
So I guess my vote would be for 10, at least as the default starting point, using the input gain on the amp or amp sim to adjust the incoming level. I'm open to being proved wrong via an audio demo, but I believe there will be no tonal difference between adjusting one versus the other as long as the level hitting the distortion algorithm ends up the same.
 
However, it's much easier to tweak the level with your pinky finger while playing than it is to reach over and grab the mouse. The recorded part may not call for flat-out distortion from beginning to end. The guitar's controls really are there for a reason, which is to accommodate dynamic changes as you play.
 
The tone knob, though, that's a matter of taste. It's going to determine what frequencies the amp or amp sim adds harmonics to. Turning the tone control down will give a different effect than using a low-pass filter after the amp sim, because it's limiting what frequencies are presented to the amp sim to be distorted. Turning it up presents the full spectrum to the amp sim, increasing the percentage of higher harmonics and thus changing their distribution. 
 
My own preference is taking the capacitor out of the circuit by turning the tone knob all the way up on the guitar, and using a filter at the input of the amp sim instead. But then, I am not a guitarist! Subtlety on the guitar, for me, is something I add later through automation. :)
 
 
 


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#24
gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 10:19:45 (permalink)
Thanks bit!

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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RobertB
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 11:07:15 (permalink)
gswitz
I want a Les Paul.

LOL
Listening to your clip again this morning, I realized the hiss that kicks in probably has more to do with normalizing a very low volume.
And you are quite right about balancing the pickups as opposed to a single volume control.
My Riviera is even more fun, because it has separate volume controls for all three pickups.
"Cringe" might have been a little strong, but I rarely bring the volume(s) all the way to 10.
It could also be a matter of playing style. I tend to play somewhat aggressively, and over time I have noticed that I seem to get a more satisfying sound if the volumes are somewhere between 5 and 8. I might even occasionally have one as low as 3.
To an extent, I'm playing with tone, but it also affects the "bite", for lack of a better word.
Of course, as noted above, gain staging and setting the amp sim correctly are important.
I'm curious as well on what the general consensus is.
I may have a non-standard approach.
 

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#26
Mistergreen
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 11:19:54 (permalink)
Anyone having an issue where they can still hear the clean signal in addition to the processed signal when playing with input echo engaged?

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#27
scook
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 11:26:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mistergreen 2014/10/29 12:25:59
It could happen depending on routing. If the clean signal is slightly ahead of the affected signal check the interface direct monitoring setting.
#28
Mistergreen
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 12:35:19 (permalink)
Thanks scook. I didn't think to check which setting I was using.

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#29
gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 12:42:23 (permalink)
Tube amp question...

If you turn the guitar down and input gain on the amp up, would this help heat the tubes and change the sound? Especially when playing quietly?

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#30
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