Helpful ReplyIs demo software safe?

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gswitz
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2014/10/24 20:54:56 (permalink)

Is demo software safe?

I just splurged on a Nomad pack with my $25 coupon for taking the survey. I wasn't planning to spend the money and I feel kinda guilty that I spend $275 or whatever that I wasn't planning on. (I had it saved for X4, right?)
 
So, I download and install it, and I'm checking out the plugins and enjoying myself and then I notice one isn't playing.
 
It's a DEMO.
 
They automatically installed DEMO versions on my DAW when I installed the pack I bought.
 
Now, I have had problems with software that caused me to have to go through a good bit of pain (I first noticed it after installing Syntorial Software, but the problem may have predated that). I had to create a new user account to resolve the Digital Rights Management Problems that were caused by some Demo software or other.
 
So, to tell the truth, I'm really upset that Nomad installed DEMO software without my knowledge.
 
Anyone got any opinions about this? I just need to chill, huh.
 
See, I should stick to my guns and just by hardware. Software just blows.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#1
TomHelvey
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 01:14:28 (permalink)
It's probably safe but demo software usually has several types of nasties waiting for you if you use it.
1. The demo expires and the plugin stops working. This is what the best demos do.
2. The demo has reduced functionality and doesn't allow you to save anything. Tolerable.
3. The demo cuts out randomly when you're using it. This is really annoying and makes it hard to evaluate the demo.
4. The demo introduces nasty sounds or beeps when you use it. See #3.
If you don't want the demos to show up in your VST list, just uninstall them. If you can't do that, go to your VST folder and remove the offending dll's.
 

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#2
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 07:52:42 (permalink)
Time to go enjoy my new toys. I'll delete the offending DLL and try to be cool about it.
 
They're just trying to stay in business like everyone else, right? They wanted to tempt me with a new plugin they've created, and I'm sure it's a good one. I did use it and like it until it stopped working being a demo.
 
But I would not have personally installed it as a DEMO. I would have listened to samples on youtube and either purchased it or not. I do not trust Digital Rights Management.
 
While I'm sure DRM helps companies that sell software protect themselves from thieves, it also prevents legit customers from using products. Someone's DRM stuff messed up my ability to use about 10 products I own. I couldn't watch my videos from Cakewalk (which I've purchased) or use Syntorial (again, I purchased it) or use Microsoft's Expression tools (and yes, I've purchased them).
 
The side effect of the Demo software was that audio went in and out (like it does on demos) intermittently for lots of other applications. The only solution was to create a new user account (this tip came from Joe at Syntorial -- I love Syntorial!!).
 
I can't say who's demo software caused my problem. I've installed WAVES demo software, Syntorial before purchasing and Melodyne before purchasing. I don't think any others.
 
In the past I've purchased versions of movies I was supposed to be able to put on my daughter's Zune but it didn't work (DRM). IMHO, DRM costs legit customers a substantial amount of time and money while protecting big corporations (Microsoft, Movie Industry, and even little Cakewalk).
 
So you might say, if we don't protect Microsoft and the big software companies, who will? But I respond that I don't want to protect them at the expense of science and the people of the world. If it wasn't for Microsoft and Apple, think where Linux would be today!!
 
I'm certain that Open Source is going to win the long distance race.
 
Today I'm disappointed in myself for supporting Nomad over companies that write for Linux.
 
And really, the whole reason I'm ranting is that Nomad took the liberty of forcing DEMO software on me against my will.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/25 08:17:27

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#3
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 08:10:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/10/25 17:06:08
I generally dislike running a demo, if only for the desire to save time with housekeeping. It took me while to develop the habit, but I always prepare for any installs or changes by making and documenting a fresh disc image for backup. It's all sort of automatic, but the process undermines my creative mood, and seems like diversion that I'd rather avoid. When I install a demo I sort of know that I'll be uninstalling it and doing a system restore even if I purchase a license. Most of the time I'd rather just buy a license than go through that.
 
I also think that, with the exception of figuring out if the product will run on your machine, there's not much you can actually learn within the time span of the demo's run time, so I prefer to be rather selective and just buy the few things I want.
 
If a vendor sneaked an install of a demo while I was installing something I purchased from them I'd be very aggravated... and then decide if I was willing to live with it. I'd imagine it's the kind of decision that is specific, contextual and personal.


#4
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 08:32:39 (permalink)
mike_mccue
If a vendor sneaked an install of a demo while I was installing something I purchased from them I'd be very aggravated... 



This is exactly the case, Mike. I purchased it out right -- the bundle that is advertised as including everything...
Cakewalk
http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=30-NFIS3.00-20E
Nomad
http://nomadfactory.com/products/isp/index.html
 
But they've come out with a new plugin that isn't included. Ok that's cool and I understand that the Everything Bundle isn't everything for all time...
 
Link to info on the new plugin...
http://nomadfactory.com/products/cosmos/index.html
 
But sneaking the demo version of the new software onto my PC really upset me.
 
It is not possible to install the software I bought without installing the Demo. I'm guessing that the Integral Package purchased through Nomad may include the Cosmos plugin where when purchased through Cakewalk it doesn't? I don't know.
 
I think they have touched on a much bigger aggravation by installing this DEMO software on my PC without my OK. It's like the Addictive Drums constant advertising. You can't even go into the plugin you own without seeing adverts for drum kits you don't own. They've turned my PC into a billboard for their software. It's a complete turn off. -- Notice I did NOT buy an AD2 kit with my coupon.
 
It makes me want to kick Windows to the curb.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/25 08:54:35

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#5
Eddie TX
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 13:27:43 (permalink)
Hang on, guys.  There seems to be some confusion here.  Things are not as bad as they seem. 
 
Nomad software is installed initially in Demo mode.  It stays that way until it's authorized.  It seems you have yet to run the authorization procedure, which is outlined here: 
 
http://www.nomadfactory.com/support/activation_tool/index.html
 
As soon as the software is authorized, the plugins function normally, without the Demo limitations.  No re-installation is needed.
 
The Integral bundle predates the new Cosmos plugin, so that one is not included regardless of where you buy it.  But Integral has about 50 plugins, so it's enough to keep you busy for a while. 
 
Let us know how you fare with the authorization.  It shouldn't be too painful.
 
Cheers,
Eddie
 

Sonar X3 Producer / Win 10 
The future exists in all directions.
#6
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 14:51:53 (permalink)
That is an interesting insight Eddie.
 
Maybe Geoff will end up with a full version of Cosmos in addition to everything?


#7
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 15:53:15 (permalink)
Eddie TX
Hang on, guys.  There seems to be some confusion here.  Things are not as bad as they seem. 
 
Nomad software is installed initially in Demo mode.  It stays that way until it's authorized.  It seems you have yet to run the authorization procedure, which is outlined here: 

I completely wanted this to be the case. I was game to have them straighten me out, which is why I contacted support before I posted here.
My note to support read:
GSwitz
It installed Cosmos, but when I pull it up it says Demo. Is that right? If Cosmos doesn't come with the pack, I'd prefer it hadn't installed it. If it does come with... how do I fix it? Reinstall?

 
And their response...
Nomad Tech Support
You can remove Cosmos by deleting it from your  C:/program files/Steinberg/VST plugins/Nomad Factory folder.

 
Every other Nomad Plugin is authorized.
 
I installed to a separate folder from the X3 Nomad folder and compared files sizes. The 20 plugins that I got yesterday that were the same names as the ones that shipped with X3 did not match the plugins that came from Sonar (by several MB in many cases).
 
Because of the note from tech support, I'm guessing that COSMOS is included in the deployment package but not in the Integral Pack 3 license. Therefore, a reinstall will not help.
 
Still, it wasn't the wordiest email from Nomad. I'll go ahead and try an Uninstall and re-install. What could possibly go wrong?? :-P
 
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#8
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 16:17:01 (permalink)
I did a re-install, but it didn't help. I was careful to only check the Integral Pack (not accidentally also check COSMOS. I'm sure I didn't the first time, but just being certain).
 
It reinstalled COSMOS again. I even went with the default install path.
 
The problem isn't that Nomad is failing to authorize it. The problem is that Nomad isn't going to Authorize it. They included it in their installer with the intention of tempting me into spending more money with them. They intentionally put adware on my PC.
 
I did go through the authorization process and all plugins are authorized that I can see except for COSMOS.This is certainly appears to be advertising.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#9
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 16:21:52 (permalink)
While installing Ad-Ware with purchased software seems to be the new direction (Nomad and Addictive Drumz) I want to say so that I'm heard by the good people at Sonar, that if they choose to do the same, I'm going to be a very unhappy customer.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Eddie TX
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 16:22:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/10/25 17:05:52
Oh, so it's just Cosmos that's in Demo mode, eh?  Everything that's in Integral is working fine?  Sorry I misunderstood the problem.  But Cosmos is not part of Integral; it's a separate license, so you'll have to buy it if you want an authorized version. 
 
It may seem strange that a demo plugin was included in the download, but Nomad isn't the only vendor that does this.  Ever try buying IK or UAD plugins?  You'd faint.  Just kidding.  Maybe. 
 
Not sure why you don't want to do as Nomad support suggested and just delete Cosmos, if you don't want the demo of it.  I wouldn't try re-installing, as that could just mess up something and won't help.   Anyway, good luck!

Cheers,
Eddie
 
 
 

Sonar X3 Producer / Win 10 
The future exists in all directions.
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gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 16:42:23 (permalink)
Eddie TX
It may seem strange that a demo plugin was included in the download, but Nomad isn't the only vendor that does this.  Ever try buying IK or UAD plugins?  You'd faint.  Just kidding.  Maybe. 

 
Thanks, Eddie.
 
I have deleted it.
 
I shouldn't whine. It's the principle of them installing adware on my PC when I spent almost $300 USD with them.
 
Eddie, the download included lots of Plugins I didn't buy. I selected ONLY the integral Package that I DID buy to install. The installer must have been intentionally designed to install COSMOS as ad-ware for people who purchased the integral pack.
 
Nomad left me wondering if I had an install problem or what. I hadn't intended to install anything Demo. I only installed the package I purchased. They chose to put things in that I hadn't purchased to force me to ask. One so I would try out software they wanted to sell. Second so I would come to them to ask about my license. Find out how much it cost. Maybe buy it.
 
It's insidious behavior. Not fair to compare them with Philip Morris selling tobacco to children, but certainly not ok. When you are within your writes to sneakily install software against the user's will on their PC you're doing something BAD. It is WRONG. It should be illegal imho.
 
 We're still in an overly unregulated period of the digital age. They are like the snake-oil salesman of old. They have no sense of moral responsibility when it comes to their privileges on my machine or my trust in them. What I'm saying is they require Admin Privileges to install their product and then install Ad-Ware. Why is that ok??
 
That they tell me how to remove the ad-ware makes them at least better than Addictive Drumz. You can't keep the AD product you paid for without the Ad-Ware. They are the scummiest of the software makers of the software I have installed on my PC.
 
If Waves, IK, UAD does it too, it just goes to the point. It's wrong and I at least am saying so. 
post edited by gswitz - 2014/10/25 17:05:11

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#12
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 17:09:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/10/25 17:05:40
"Nomad isn't the only vendor that does this.  Ever try buying IK or UAD plugins?  You'd faint."
 
Now I remember why I abandoned the use of IK Multimedia stuff. :-)


#13
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 17:15:07 (permalink)
/rant
 
Thanks for listening. :-)

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#14
bitflipper
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 17:43:56 (permalink)
Nomad Factory says: 
Once authorized, the demo restrictions will be removed and you'll be able to fully use the purchased software.

 
The implication is that you install just one DLL, and that it runs in demo mode until authorized. That's how it should always be done, and I avoid demoing products that don't explicitly say that. You should never have to uninstall a demo version - vendors who make you do that are just lazy and paranoid.
 
I certainly wouldn't jump through any hoops for Cosmos. When I bought it on sale for $20 it was a good buy, even though I've only used it a few times (it can be pretty good for adding thump to acoustic kicks). For any more than that I wouldn't bother. It's not that special.
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
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gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/25 21:00:44 (permalink)
Thanks, Bit. I actually kinda liked the plugin. I just didn't like getting all excited about my new stuff only to discover that I couldn't have THAT one. :-)
 
I feel bad about my rant now.
 
I was just upset having spent all that money to have them put something in my Effect Choices in Sonar that wasn't actually a choice.
 
They didn't ask me to uninstall it; they said to delete it.
 
It didn't go in as one big DLL, but as 52 little ones. All that installing and uninstalling kinda messed up my project for this week's jazz class (not that it matters). The first one came out ok, but after that I kept having to re-add all the plugins from Nomad b/c I was uninstalling and re-installing to make sure I didn't get Cosmos and just messed it up.
 
Anyway, here's the link to my MP3 of the modes we're practicing this week...
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20141022_JazzClass_Week2.mp3
 
Imho, not really worth a listen but still... just finished.
 
Off to read to my kid. I'm very grateful for you guys all being nice to me, even when I'm in a lousy mood.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/26 09:33:28 (permalink)
And here I thought "jazz" was any mistake you made twice in a row.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#17
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/26 09:39:17 (permalink)
Is this week 2 of the Jazz Improv course by Gary Burton?


#18
gswitz
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Re: Is demo software safe? 2014/10/26 19:31:18 (permalink)
mike_mccue
Is this week 2 of the Jazz Improv course by Gary Burton?



Yes!

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#19
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