SteveStrummerUK

spacey

SteveStrummerUK
 
   I'm certain that we would all consider that at a 'certain' price, the subscription model would appear then more appealing than the purchasing model.
 
 
 

If you think Cakewalk offering me a subscription and me saying no means that I've considered it, your right. Anything other than that and you are mistaken.
 
Reason being; X3e is the first stable version along with the first computer that has managed to process everything I wanted to be able to do.
But nothing lasts forever and since I can't tell the future and see no reason that I shouldn't be good for years with what I have there is no way I know what will be offered and/or what I'd consider.
 
I'm also not concerned about Cake going in that direction. I'm really more interested in what they can do with the new version/update to make the updating price worth it. They may have shot themselves in the foot making X3 so good.
It is the first time that I thought I might miss an update. I'm not in that group of needing to have a thousand plug-ins or a problem with the way X3 looks so they're going to have to implement something very sweet to even warrant me paying to update X3. 
Never had a DAW before that I didn't want it fooled with.
 
 
 

I appreciate what you're saying Mike, but surely there must be a monthly subscription price you'd eventually give in at? Even if you tried a new version out for a couple of months to see what it offers, as you say, you'd still have your version of X3 to fall back on.
 
Mind you, I still have my ancient, yet beloved version of Cakewalk Guitar Tracks 2 (from around 2002 if memory serves me correctly) running happily on this (Win 7) PC! Even though it's pretty basic by SONAR standards (we're talking just 8 tracks of audio, no bussing and no MIDI compatibility), I reckon I could still knock up a half-decent tune using it
 
 

 
 
It took many, many years to get to X3 and a computer that had enough power to handle everything I wanted to do and then it finally happened. Cakewalk, Windows7 and the power of the PC finally came together -and all around the same time and for the first time there was amazing performance.
No conflicts with other intense software I enjoy using such as Vegas Pro and Spectrasonics stuff. Never could say that before X3, Win7 and a powerful PC.
 
No Steve, I won't be dealing with subscriptions from Cake or anybody else.
 
I imagine there are folks content with Guitar Tracks 2 or 8.5. I'm happy for them. ( I too go back to Guitar Trks 2)
 
I'm very content with the system I have and as I stated- Cake is going to have to do something really slick to cause me to even upgrade or mess with this DAW and subscribe is not even in the picture...currently there is just not one reason and I can't imagine them giving me one.
 
I've upgraded since Guitar Tracks 2 because either I couldn't do what I wanted or there was trouble with the software or hardware....always something wrong. Good software and the hardware wouldn't run it...good hardware and the software was crap...always something until now.
 
But none of that has do with a subscription to software. Some will be fine with it. I'll be fine without it and if that's the only choice given- they'll be fine without me. Everybody will be happy.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

What is unclear to me is, what happens if I stop paying the subscription fees? Does the program stop working after a while or what? If I can continue with current version normally, then it's not that terrible, unless I, say, lose the  upgrade price option. 
If, however, I'm tied to pay as long as I want to be able to use the projects I've created, then it's next to criminal.
That would make switching to another DAW quite expensive, too, if you must keep paying just because you may need the projects in the future. Also, many of you have several DAWs installed. If they all use subscription-mode, the total cost for the ones you use only occasionally, can get relatively high.

RE: Adobe.
 
Like dubdisciple, my knowledge of Adobe is only second-hand (my brother works there).
 
My impression is that the subscription model has been grudgingly accepted by their core base, which is professional video editors (who don't buy software out of their own pockets). At the same time, it's taken the company completely out of the running for the much larger market of casual users. But that was their strategy all along - acquiring Cool Edit Pro was to fill a hole in their flagship video-editing package.
 
I doubt they'd ever consider doing such a thing with Photoshop, with its much broader audience, of which only a minority are professional users.
 
Adobe also has some highly specialized markets, too. Like Linotype software and embedded Postscript interpreters for printers. These have always been a pay-as-you-go license kind of deal. Similarly, if you want to use the Acrobat developer's library you'll pay an annual fee for that privilege as well. I imagine the same is true for Flash and ColdFusion. The point being that you can get away with annuity payments if your user base is firmly locked into your product.
 

Kalle Rantaaho
What is unclear to me is, what happens if I stop paying the subscription fees? Does the program stop working after a while or what? If I can continue with current version normally, then it's not that terrible, unless I, say, lose the  upgrade price option. 
If, however, I'm tied to pay as long as I want to be able to use the projects I've created, then it's next to criminal.
That would make switching to another DAW quite expensive, too, if you must keep paying just because you may need the projects in the future. Also, many of you have several DAWs installed. If they all use subscription-mode, the total cost for the ones you use only occasionally, can get relatively high.

Hi Kalle
 
Following on from the excellent insights about Adobe from Dub and Bit, I've just spent 20 minutes or so talking to Adobe Customer Support.
 
Obviously, this may not apply to all companies and all subscription models, but this is what they had to say:

1. If you do not renew your subscription:
   • The software will run in demo mode for 30 days, unless you have already used it in demo mode, in which case it will run for the number of days you had left on your demo period.
   • Once the demo period expires, the software remains on your PC, but when you try to run it, you are presented with a splash screen that requires you to start another subscription before the product will open and function.
2. Minimum Subscription period:
   • All their subscription plans are for one year. You can elect to pay monthly or annually; the annual 'upfront' charge works out slightly cheaper.
   • If you fail to make a monthly payment during the annual period, or if you wish to cancel your subscription before the end of the annual contract, you forfeit 50% of the remaining monthly subscription remaining (or if you paid an annual subscription, they will only refund you 50% of the amount you haven't used).

 
Apparently, it gets even more complicated if you subscribe to any of the plans that are bundled with online storage and user-run web pages (to advertise your business/showcase your work).
 
The minimum subscription period, coupled with the 50% forfeit, is implemented to stop users simply subscribing for a month at a time here and there.
 
Any Adobe software you already own a perpetual licence for (i.e. you bought the software before taking up a subscription plan) is not affected in any way; it will continue to work for as long as you have it installed regardless of any subscriptions you start, or subsequently cancel.
 
Part of my thinking about giving the Photography Plan a go for a year is based on the knowledge that if I decide to stop subscribing, all my image files will still open, and be completely editable in the versions of Lightroom and Photoshop Elements I actually own.
 
So, in your example, as long as you already own software that can open the files, you would be able to fall back on that once the subscription software stops working.
 
I'm guessing that problems might start to arise in some subscription plans if the files a particular software uses are not backwardly compatible. A good example might be if Cakewalk implemented a updated version of their proprietary Project File if they launched SONAR X4 as a subscription model. If the new project file format was not backwardly compatible, you wouldn't be able to open any projects created in X4 in X3 (and previous).
 
Incidentally, it's not impossible to conceive this could happen as they did change from .wrk (work) and .bun (bundle) files a while back to .cwp (project) and .cwb (bundle) files. However, as far as I can recall, they have made every effort to enable the newer software to open these old file formats.
 
I would assume most subscription plans from other companies would run along similar lines.

Kalle Rantaaho
What is unclear to me is, what happens if I stop paying the subscription fees? Does the program stop working after a while or what? If I can continue with current version normally, then it's not that terrible, unless I, say, lose the  upgrade price option. 
If, however, I'm tied to pay as long as I want to be able to use the projects I've created, then it's next to criminal.
That would make switching to another DAW quite expensive, too, if you must keep paying just because you may need the projects in the future. Also, many of you have several DAWs installed. If they all use subscription-mode, the total cost for the ones you use only occasionally, can get relatively high.

The way I understand it:
You will not have the software on your computer. Your computer will only be a gateway to the subscription's server. That server will carry the software. Without connection to that server you will not be able to work on your project.
The positive view:
IfI understand correctly, one could get by with a low end computer and be able to hook-up to the subscription's server and use their high end computer. The subscriber will not have to worry about updating drivers, new versions, new operating systems.
There are some interesting posibilities here. Of course, it would be nice to have the choice of subscription or hard copy but it wasn't so with Adobe. I was told I have the last version of Photoshop that will be available for purchase. Future versions will only be available via subscription.

SteveStrummerUK
 
@ Mike
 
Would you mind being a little less vague and try to be a bit more concise?
 
Are you trying to say you wouldn't move to a subscription model

LOL....I did try.
 
 

I am not keen on the subscription model because at some point, either due to a change in my circumstances or a price hike I may no be able to afford the fee. With the current system one could at least keep the old version running as long as the hardware held out.
 
That said I recently took out the Adobe Photography Plan as I needed to upgrade Lightroom to read the RAW files from my new camera. But Adobe have a much more commanding position in the photography software market that Cakewalk has in the DAW market, Adobe users more or less have had to grin and bare it but there are a lot of other DAWs on the market.

Tom..I'm sure a true 100% cloud model is very desirable for software vendors. Easier to control piracy if software never resides on machine. It would probably require a very big brother type world where everyone was connected to a web so fast that latency was almost non-existent.

FYI, the Adobe model does allow typical multiple computer usage . For example, I could have Premiere Pro on my laptop and desktop or even on a mac and pc. The standard "as long as you are not using simultaneously" conditions apply. Some of the pluses for Adobe's model despite my overall dislike but begrudging usage, are:

Bug fixes come quicker. When a major issue accompanies an update the fix usually comes within days

There is still a major update at least once a year but .5 type updates come more frequently even if it's not for every product.

If you are a multimedia guy like myself that does sound, video, photography, vfx, motion graphics, etc, the overall cost of upgrading would be absurdly expensive since I would have to get the master suite which was like $3000 and upgrades were usually about $1600. Although I used a lot of products, there would still be plenty I did not use. Still a lot I don't use but I'm not paying nearly as much to not use them lol

spacey

SteveStrummerUK
 
@ Mike
 
Would you mind being a little less vague and try to be a bit more concise?
 
Are you trying to say you wouldn't move to a subscription model

LOL....I did try.
 
 

Sorry, but I couldn't resist that - you're a good sport Mike!

There's one perspective that's been missing in this discussion.  Suppose you wanted to test the waters with a new mainstream, pro-level DAW?  First time buyers, as opposed to upgraders, will pay a premium to purchase a license.  On the other hand, if you could score a year of use for just a hundred bucks, your risk is very much lower. 
 
Personally, whether I pay a hundred bucks a year for an annual upgrade or a hundred bucks for a subscription makes little difference for a flagship piece of software like a DAW, as long as I'm actively and frequently using it.  Anything smaller though, like synths or effects, no way.

dmbaer
There's one perspective that's been missing in this discussion.  Suppose you wanted to test the waters with a new mainstream, pro-level DAW?  First time buyers, as opposed to upgraders, will pay a premium to purchase a license.  On the other hand, if you could score a year of use for just a hundred bucks, your risk is very much lower. 
 
Personally, whether I pay a hundred bucks a year for an annual upgrade or a hundred bucks for a subscription makes little difference for a flagship piece of software like a DAW, as long as I'm actively and frequently using it.  Anything smaller though, like synths or effects, no way.

 
 
Does not a free trial for software work for those wanting to "test the waters" ? And that's free with no risk .
 
Upgrading and updating are two different things to me.
 
 
 
 
 
 

I'm at the point that I'm 1 Billion times more satisfied than I ever thought I would be in terms of what I can do with the software I currently have to record music.
 
I can do way more than I ever expected.  Way more than I ever even dreamed of doing with music even 5 years ago.
 
I could live on a deserted island (with electricity) and enjoy my Sonar X3 Producer and assorted extra plugins "as is" for the rest of my music endeavors.
 
However, I will be glad to pay for an upgrade for Sonar if as usual a new version comes out with some new features that really seem like a good improvement and the price is fair for the upgrade. 
 
But I wouldn't consider "upgrading" to a subscription model with those newer features.  I'd just stay happily on my island, much like those users who never made the jump to the X series and stayed loyal to Sonar 8.5.3.

I also poo pooed the subscription model.  Would probably just stick with the latest (X3 is already beyond my wildest dreams of a few years ago) and throw some money at ableton or something new like BitWig.
 
 

not interested in a subscription.
 
STILL..... using sonar 6 PE.....
 
works perfectly fine.
 
 
if they are smart, they will provide options for both, like MS does with office.