Helpful ReplyGetting started with TH2 amp simulator

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mrpippy2
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 13:34:54 (permalink)
Had some fun playing around last night.  However, I was thrown by this from gswitz's awesome post from earlier:  "11. On the right hand side, third button down, click SEARCH."  I'm using the TH2 version that came with Producer (not the full upgraded version) and I swear I can't find this anywhere.  Therefore, I had no way to play with the presets.  I did find that in the "chain", I could access 6 or 8 different amps by clicking the arrows in the onscreen amp, so I was able to get some different sounds that way.  And I'm sure I only scraped 5% or so of the sound-shaping possibilities.  I'm just wondering if I'm missing something as far as accessing the presets...

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#31
scook
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 14:01:56 (permalink)
TH2 Producer comes with a few presets. Just below the header panel containing I/O controls at the top of the UI is the sound panel which contains preset info. Click the 001 on the left to toggle between the factory and user bank 001. There should be presets in 001 factiory. To the right is the sound number 01.1. Just below these numbers are the variations for this sound number. The search button on the far right of the sound panel will open a window displaying all the presets available. At the bottom right of the UI is a manual button. This will open the TH2 pdf.
Depending on how long you have had TH2 Producer, your store account may have additional presets in a line item Free TH2 Producer content pack. I believe it was added in late 2012.
#32
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 16:07:20 (permalink)
The tubes react to the amount of signal they are being hit with. A real tube amp can be set for lower gain settings or low channel volume with high master volume so the signal from the guitar is clean when the guitar is wide open. Higher gain settings in the channel or preamp causes the preamp tubes to overdrive when the guitar is full up so you turn the master down to compensate for the volume change. When you increase the volume of the guitar it causes the preamp tubes to slightly be pushed harder. Depending on the relationship of the channel and the master volume depends on how much crunch or distortion the tubes give you. This is the basic way a real tube amp works.
There is a universe of subtle changes involved in adjusting the preamp and master controls. Keep in mind that this is just the amp alone. For versatility, you may want to use the amp set clean and use an overdrive or distortion pedal for your shredding. That way if you need a clean rhythm sound after your metal solo, you just switch off the distortion pedal. That's the basis of most live rigs that have to be more versatile than just going with the same sound all night long.

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#33
mrpippy2
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/29 20:30:38 (permalink)
Thanks Scook!  I forgot to disengage the master button, and so I actually had no sound panel below the master panel.  Once I clicked master, there were the presets!  And I'm embarrassed to have missed the manual.  I will read that when the screaming babies allow...

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#34
TremoJem
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 06:55:11 (permalink)
I too, have never tried TH2. No time and I am sort of old school in thinking I want the real thing with an SM57 in front of my tube amp.
 
But I can't wait to get home now and try this, thanks guys...great thread.

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#35
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 07:50:02 (permalink)
As a guitarist for almost 50 years I can attest to the fact that NOTHING beats a really good tube guitar amp with the classic dynamic or condenser mic placed correctly. The amp sims still are not quite there but they sure make it easier to get a killer sound quickly. And it is much easier to re-amp a track with a plugin than setting up all the hardware to re-amp the real thing.
At the end of the day, it is all about versatility. If you are a session player or a composer that is called on to create many different kinds of music, you probably want as many choices of amps and FX as you can get.
If you are what I refer to as a specialist, someone who has built their rep on their one distinct style and tone you really want to stick close to the sound that is keeping you working.
In the big budget session it is all about getting that song down as quickly as possible so anything you can have in your toolbox that helps you get it done is a plus. I think the most important thing of all is to find the one amp or amp sim that you really like and learn it inside out so there's not much mucking around time.
BTW, there are a ton of videos about TH2 on YouTube.

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#36
gswitz
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 08:24:54 (permalink)
Babies can't sleep through the real thing.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#37
mettelus
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 10:10:36 (permalink)
This comment caught my eye and made another question come to mind...
 
Sidroe
As a guitarist for almost 50 years I can attest to the fact that NOTHING beats a really good tube guitar amp with the classic dynamic or condenser mic placed correctly.



25 years ago, when I first started playing guitar, research showed that pedals (granted hardware) could not replicate true tube amp sounds so I opted to get a nice Carvin tube amp. At that time "MOSFET technology" was coming onboard, but not mature, although looked promising to replicate a tube amp sound in the future...
 
Granted, stomp boxes/pedal boards are hardware, but I was curious if you feel they can replicate a tube amp nowadays? I never tracked the MOSFET hype since I would never need it, but it is now 25 years after the fact (ugh).
 
I also agree in two things 100% regarding amp sims... 1) the convenience of them and 2) the ability to alter the sound drastically during the mixing phase since the clean tone is what is actually recorded. Even new applications like Melodyne do not take well to being fed a distorted signal.

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#38
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 20:24:05 (permalink)
Mettelus, I converted over to using a POD 2.0 when they first came out and while it took getting used to as far as the feel and response of the guitar being a little different it sure made my life easier both on stage and in the studio. I took so much flak because I was the first guy around here to go straight in the PA. Horror of horrors! Are you crazy? Go get your amp! They freaked when they were still tearing down gear to load out and I was unplugged and getting in the car! It took a while but soon some other guys started following down the path. I now use a Line 6 HD500 and I would say that the industry is very close to getting it right as far as the sound and the response under your fingers. Even Fractal Audio is designing their new pedalboards to look almost like Line 6s.
MOSFET was not anything close to the process of modeling. I never owned a MOSFET amp but among my amp collection sits an old solid state Fender UltraChorus amp. Many of my friends and fellow studio guys have been amazed at how it sounds and feels very much like a tube amp. They used something called "Dynamic Articulation Technology" if I remember correctly. I suspect it is probably a MOSFET setup in there.
Anyway, the quick answer is I think we will see a day when people are chasing amp sims just as much as they chase the ultimate tone of that old Twin or Marshall. LOL!
I think right now we are at a place where even the most critical listener will not tell the difference if it's real or an amp sim in a mix. You noticed I said in a mix. There still are ways to tell if the track is soloed whether it's the real deal.

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#39
RobertB
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 22:08:25 (permalink)
Sidroe
 I think we will see a day when people are chasing amp sims just as much as they chase the ultimate tone of that old Twin or Marshall.



That day may be closer than you think.
I haven't had access to a "real" amp for quite some time. Even if I did, I wouldn't really be able to use it much. I'm too old to be dealing with evictions (and my wife's response to said evictions).
Amp sims have been a godsend. I do much of my recording in the late evening when noise is not an option, so sims and headphones are the modus operandi.
On days off, I have a little more leeway and I can pump the sims through my monitors.
Not perfect, perhaps, but it beats having my guitars become nice ornaments.
 

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#40
Paul P
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/30 23:27:15 (permalink)
Sidroe
Mettelus, I converted over to using a POD 2.0 when they first came out and while it took getting used to as far as the feel and response of the guitar being a little different it sure made my life easier both on stage and in the studio. I took so much flak because I was the first guy around here to go straight in the PA. Horror of horrors! Are you crazy? Go get your amp! They freaked when they were still tearing down gear to load out and I was unplugged and getting in the car!



Reminds me of the electric guitar player accompanying (with the rest of a band) a choir I sang in a few years ago.  At the time I was into building tube amps and was deep into the folklore.  One concert night this guy shows up with a Pod and a Twin that he'd rented.  When I prodded him for some tube-related insider info he explained that he just wanted the cleanest sound out of the twin so he kept it around 4.  The Pod gave him all the heavy distortion he used during the performance (it was most likely miked into the concert hall PA system).  Now, what fun is that ?
 

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#41
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/31 08:40:56 (permalink)
RobertB, I couldn't agree more with you. I do most of my work around 6 in the morning. I have always been an early riser!LOL! There's nothing like slipping those headphones on and hearing big, clean Twin rhythm track grooving in the back while that Dual Rectifier is burning out! Nothing goes better with a cup of hot chocolate. hee-hee

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#42
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/31 08:48:59 (permalink)
Paul, I can't tell you how funny it was to see fellow guitarist coming to the gig and craning their necks looking for the amp rig and lining up on the break to find out where that killer guitar sound is coming from. Anyone that knows me knows I have quite a collection of amps and guitars I acquired thru the years. When the amps disappeared off the stage it took a long time to get everyone to understand I wasn't going to sell anything. The PODs and amp sims are just another tool in the box.
I have been using TH2 on a laptop at gigs for about a year now with a patch on my HD500 setup as a controller for TH2! All the guys are looking at this and saying "Oh, well! Here we go again!"

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#43
Grem
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/31 14:33:18 (permalink)
mettelus

I was curious if you feel they can replicate a tube amp nowadays? I



I still feel that there is nothing like a good tube amp. I have a Carvin Nomad. A very distinctive clean sound. 🎸😊

The subtle sound you can get from a Les Paul by moving the volume control even one number is astonishing. Then throw in the tone control of the same pickup and it just keeps getting better. Same with a good Strat. Except the tone varies with the volume knob getting lower.

A hot pickup turned wide open will give distortion. If you are going for that, great. But I would suggest like others here have: Try the volume of the guitar on 6-7, the distortion on the amp sim "may" be better. More definition. Depends on the sim.

Grem

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#44
mettelus
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/31 16:21:31 (permalink)
Thanks for the feedback! I definitely think the ability to use headphones definitely sent me down the path to the amp sims. The incredible reduction in set up times (and ease of recording) turned it into the "standard" for me at home. Several months ago I did take pity on my Carvin XV 212 and asked folks in another thread about bringing it back up to spec (which turned out to be nothing more than a good electronic cleaning!). I live out in the boonies now, so have no concerns to be "too loud" and got re-acquainted with it afterwards and had incredible fun. The setup in my den is not the best to record it (and I admit I prefer to record clean signals anyway since being jaded by amp sims), but it is getting more use these days just for straight up playing - nothing like truly feeling the music
 
I have always had a weird stigma with laptops, but see their usefulness attested to in this forum more and more. I am definitely not keen on lugging 75lbs equipment around, and plugging straight into a PA is what I do most times anyway. I need to rethink that one, since the right laptop could be a benefit.

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#45
Grem
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/31 20:43:17 (permalink)
Well I can't say enough good things about amp Sims. Bought Line 6 Gear Box Gold about Five years ago and really leaned fast how quick and easy it was to start a song, grab a sound, get a trk down and go back and play with it using different patches that I had never thought of, layering them.......and on and on!

So for about three years, I didn't use my amps. In fact I got really fond of playing through the amp Sims into my monitor (especially Head Case). I just love the response I get from those monitors.

About six months ago I started playing through tubes again. Wow, I realized what I missed.

Then as an off hand trail, I stuck my 4040 in front of the speaker cab and recorded a take. It was very different than the takes I made with the Sims. It sounded great with hardly any effort!!

Not to make this into a " real vs itb " post, I'm just saying both are really good. And both have their weaknesses.

Given the choice, I may go with the.......😊

Grem

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#46
RobertB
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/10/31 22:30:38 (permalink)
We've been talking about guitars, but don't forget you can use amp sims with soft synths, too.
I'm particularly fond of a really dirty organ sound, so I called up a an amp sim to get it.
This is a nice, clean organ from DimPro being pumped through an old favorite, FreeAmp2:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=5915248
 

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#47
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/11/01 08:20:50 (permalink)
Nice, Robert! Shades of Jon Lord!

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#48
Sidroe
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/11/01 08:37:33 (permalink)
Grem! The way the volume control on the guitar makes the sim respond is one of the first things I try. I have used a volume pedal for my control because it keeps me from having to stop and twiddle knobs in the middle of a riff. My hands stay on the guitar almost permanently. Also, how the amp sim responds to my dynamic picking is crucial, as it is to all of us. The last couple of newer sims that I have tried and used have gotten closer to that tube amp mojo. They still are not perfect by any means but they seem to be making some steps.
My only quandary is that most sims seem to be aimed at either squeaky clean and shredders! I was glad to see the BIAS demo actually had a few videos of the player getting that slightly overdriven sound that I live in most of the time. The S-Gear demos sound good but I haven't tried it to see how it FEELS. I play a lot of Ford and Carlton style jazz where you really use that region of clean with some grit. The struggle has become easier trying to replicate that slightly overdriven sound with TH2. I had to make the jump from TH2 Producer to the full version to get the compressors and the Brunetti amps in there REALLY do a fantastic job!
Right now, HD500 and TH2 are the frontrunners when using sims for me. I sometimes use Torpedo Wall of Sound cab sim for some different colors. 
 

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#49
Mistergreen
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2014/11/03 15:08:08 (permalink)
scook
It could happen depending on routing. If the clean signal is slightly ahead of the affected signal check the interface direct monitoring setting.




That fixed it. Thanks again!

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#50
yellowcake64
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2016/04/30 06:41:53 (permalink)
Hi folks, hope you are all well. 
 
The rather excellent post below by Geoff (posted some time ago) explains how to use guitar sims with Sonar. However I'd like to ask a couple of related questions which I've listed at the foot of the post:
 
gswitz
 
1. Run the Guitar cable from the guitar to the Focusrite interface (don't mic your own amp).
2. Launch Sonar and insert a single audio track into a new project.
3. Set the input for the audio track (at the bottom of the track inspector) to match the input from your interface that your guitar is plugged into. **tip: you might have to click to turn off the pro channel tab to see where to set the input on your track.
4. Click the Input Echo button on the track so that you can now hear the completely clean sound of your guitar. (If there is a lag between the time you play a note and the time you hear it then reduce the latency on your interface by going to
Preferences > Audio > Playback and Recording and set Driver Mode = Asio.
Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings > Click the Asio Panel button and reduce the buffer size).
5. switch the track inspector to the Pro Channel View by clicking Pro Channel at the top of the track.
6. Drag TH2 from the browser window (Hit B to see it if you can't. TH2 will be under Plugins > Audio FX > VST2 > Overloud) to the Pro Channel.
7. Now when you play a note, you hear it through TH2.
8. Click the Master button at the top left. If you are playing a guitar with single coil pickups (like a strat) select Input = Low. If you are playing a guitar with humbuckers (Les Paul) select input=high.
9. Click the In Lev button at the top left of the TH2 window. This lets you know if TH2 is getting enough signal. Now, I usually let my interface auto set the level for the recording with a good 6 dB of head room. This is less signal than TH2 likes, so I often increase the Gain Nob on the Track inspector until the In Lev is showing in the GOOD range. (This trick means you don't clip and you also get the most out of TH2). (Also, don't forget to turn your guitar all the way up to 10 on the guitar body. No reason not to send a loud signal.)
10. Next click the Tuner button to the right of the In Lev button and tune up.
11. On the right hand side, third button down, click SEARCH.
12. Play the guitar while clicking on the different preset choices. Click Load Sound to import the whole row of presets to the main interface so you can switch between them. Load Variation only replaces the selected individual sound (not the row) with the currently selected sound in the main interface.
 
Advanced trick: Credit to Craig Anderton 
1. Drag the EQ in the pro channel BEFORE the TH2.
2. Enable the EQ and the Low Pass (LP) filter (bottom of the EQ).
3. Set the LP Slope around 12 and slowly bring down the LP Frequency while playing.
... see if this doesn't tame some of the high end stuff created by TH2. TH2 emulates nicer microphones than most of us have. When you record an amp with a cheap mic, it doesn't have all that high end. Doing this can help get sounds more like what you are used to hearing.
 
 ** When Craig Anderton mentions 'Re-Amping' he is describing the technique of recording a guitar direct to an interface and then playing just that signal and sending it to a Real Amplifier and then tweaking that amplifier and recording it with microphones. This is somewhat commonly done. Often, when guitarists want to hear their amps and engineers want to be able to have the dry signal, they take the dry signal and then send it to the guitarists Amp. Then they also mic the amp. This gives you the best of both worlds. If the recording of the guitarists amp turns out to be awesome, you're done. If not, you can make changes by either re-recording the guitarists amp or using an in the box effect like TH2 to augment it.

 
 
At the moment I'm demoing Guitar Rig 5 and it's pretty good, but I've decided I really want to record the effected sound 'live' rather than add it later as an effect. The post above explains how to record a clean signal whilst hearing the effected signal but this isn't really what I'm after; I'd like to be able to use GR5 more like a hardware effects unit so that when I dial up a sound I like, it's actually recorded. Or I'd at least like the option to do that if I wanted. 
 
My question therefore is can this be done? I guess if it can't then I might be better off going for a hardware processor like the Boss GT-001.
 
My second question is about specific statements in Geoff's post above:
 
5. switch the track inspector to the Pro Channel View by clicking Pro Channel at the top of the track.
6. Drag TH2 from the browser window (Hit B to see it if you can't. TH2 will be under Plugins > Audio FX > VST2 > Overloud) to the Pro Channel.
 
He's talking about TH2 whereas I'm currently demoing GR5 but I'm intrigued why he's suggesting that the effect be dragged to the Pro Channel rather than the track itself? I'm sure there's a totally logical answer :-)
 
Thanks
YC
 

Yellowcake
Sonar Platinum; Core i7 4790K Quad core 16GB DDR 3 RAM; Windows 10 (64-bit); Tascam US-4x4 interface; Roland Juno D synth; KRK Rokit 6 monitors; V-Amp2; V-Amp Bass.
#51
dwardzala
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Re: Getting started with TH2 amp simulator 2016/04/30 08:12:14 (permalink)
Check out the first (I think) Cake TV Live video at the top of the page (stickies).  They show exactly how to use Aux Tracks to do exactly what you are trying to do.
 
As far as whether to put a VST in Pro Channel or the Effects bin, its personal preference.  Either will work.  If you are using other PC modules (like the EQ) you can place GR5 before or after them (or in between if you have more than one PC module.)

Dave
Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
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Check out my original music:
https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
 
 
#52
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