Ozone question

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keneds
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2014/11/09 23:29:35 (permalink)

Ozone question

I've decided to pick up the latest copy of Ozone (6) to try to get some of my projects to the more polished state. I have around ten to twelve songs I'm trying to line up. My question is do I open a new project and import each song (wave file) to its own track and install ozone into each song track because each song has its own mastering needs?

Next:
After the first song plays out..... A few seconds of dead air and then the next song track will begin? And so on and so on to create roughly a 50 minute ( give or take) project? Is this he way I should proceed?

Thank you for your time. Ken

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    SuperG
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 00:38:44 (permalink)
    It depends on your particular workflow style.
     
    I tend to master within the same project I mix and track in. Ozone is simply use as the last plug-in on a master bus, before going to the mains.
     
    Other folks will export a finished track to a wave file, and create a separate project just for mastering purposes.
     
    Either way works.

    laudem Deo
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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 06:43:48 (permalink)
    A separate project with all the songs?

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 10:00:07 (permalink)
    What I would do here is use Ozone in the master bus of the song..... one at a time.  What that looks like can vary from opening the original project and inserting O6 into the master bus and exporting it before repeating that with the next project.....or..... you could load all the exported files into their own track in a new project and insert O6 into the common master bus using mute or solo to work on one track at a time. Personally, I like the first approach since that lets you set different parameters, tweek them as needed, and save them in each project.
     
    In the first song you work on, set up the plug in and save the settings in a preset. Or use one of their presets, edit it, and save it with a new name. Load that new preset for each song in it's own project. This will give you the same basic overall sound shaping for all the songs.  Then, export the finished songs into a new folder and start to compare them one after the other. You should be listening for the EQ to be very similar, the levels to be very similar, and for the songs to sound as if they were recorded in the same studio, by the same musicians, and at the same general time.
     
    If you start adding Ozone into the tracks in the project..... that's totally possible, and I use it that way..... but at this stage, unless it's a really important project and the time you will spend doing this is justified by the end results, I'd simply skip the total remix and just polish them all to be as similar as possible and then start on the new ones you write and record using O6 in the tracks as you deem necessary.
     
    I have a custom preset that I start every song project with. I add eq and Ozone to tracks as I need it. The overall result of using that same custom preset is that my tunes tend to sound like they are all related and from the same studio.
     
    Just my 2 cents

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 11:26:13 (permalink)
    My method is to master each song in its own project, with Ozone (or other limiter) on the master bus, export as 32-bit with no dithering, and then open a separate CD-mastering project and load each song into that.
     
    An instance of Ozone on the mastering project's master bus supplies the wordlength reduction and dithering, the "prevent intersample clipping" option is turned on, and the limiter mode is "brickwall" with a threshold of -0.03 dB. Sometimes I also use Ozone's EQ as a rumble filter, with a steep rolloff around 30 Hz.
     
    A prerequisite for this method working is that each song should be mastered to a common loudness standard. That way, all the songs are going to already be pretty close in volume. A volume envelope in the master project can be used for minor tweaks (identify the quietest song in the collection and adjust everything else to it), generally no more than 1 or 2 dB to match volumes.
     
    I load each song into a single stereo track in the mastering project. That makes it easy to re-sequence them if I want, and to precisely set the gaps and crossfades.
     
    I don't ever use the standard 2-second gaps that CD-burning software sticks in by default. Instead, I set the gaps by ear in the mastering project. For example, a transition from an up-tempo rocker to a ballad might warrant a longer silence. I like to count beats as I'm listening, so that the next song comes in on the beat of the previous song. I'm also fond of crossfades, which works great when two consecutive songs are in the same key with similar tempos.
     
    This procedure lets me preview a CD album in its entirety, exactly as a listener will hear it. Once I'm happy with the sequence, volume-matching and gaps, I export the whole shebang as one big 16-bit wave file. 
     
    At this point, your CD-burning application sees only one file, and will create only one index marker. You have to now go in and manually set index markers on each song. Most CD-burning software will let you do this.
     
    WARNING: if you send this master out for replication, be sure to send along a note that they are NOT to put in gaps between the songs. Tell them it's gapless. I had a thousand disks come back with 100ms gaps between every song after having painstakingly adjusted every crossfade. And it was a live album, so it sounded especially weird. I would have been furious had it not been my own damn fault for failing to give explicit instructions.


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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 17:36:41 (permalink)
    In response to bit flipper......

    "My method is to master each song in its own project, with Ozone (or other limiter) on the master bus, export as 32-bit with no dithering, and then open a separate CD-mastering project and load each song into that."

    Just so I'm clear, after your satisfied with the mix of your song, you add Ozone to the master bus and master withing that song project. Once you have all of your songs mastered to your liking, you then.... export all of those songs....one at a time into your mastering projects single stereo track and space the accordingly. Then do you add ozone to that projects master bus and master them as a whole?

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 17:50:04 (permalink)
    Yup.


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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/10 18:11:10 (permalink)
    Ok then...I'll take that road. Thank you. ( I might circle back around with more questions though ) Thank You.

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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/11 16:10:48 (permalink)
    What I do is mix the project to a new track.  Then apply Ozone 5 to that track.  Export that track letting Ozone 5 dither it to 16 bit/44.1Khz. 

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    #9
    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/11 16:42:46 (permalink)
    What My initial approach was before I opened this post was to open a fresh project and call it "masters". Each track (or song, wave file) would have its own instance of Ozone loaded into it because each song has its own needs ( let's just say it's a ten song project ). I would solo the song I'm working on and mute the others. Once all are done......I would bounce all songs to a single stereo track, gap accordingly, and convert that "Album" track to a wave file @ 16 bits. Is this a suitable way to do this? I just want to start out in the right direction from the start, that's why I come here to pick up pieces of the knowledge that is here.

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    clintmartin
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/11 17:00:21 (permalink)
    I believe with the new Ozone you can also load the individual wav files into it in standalone mode. If your happy with the mix this may be one method to consider. Personally I like to do all three. On my last project I would mix and master the song on a per project basis then export the file and use a "mastering" project for all the finished mixes. I would also import the wavs into T-racks standalone and have a go with that.

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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/11 17:09:47 (permalink)
    I haven't figured out how to get my VS-700 to have control in stand alone mode....I need to look into that.

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    Del
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/13 11:12:03 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    My method is to master each song in its own project, with Ozone (or other limiter) on the master bus, export as 32-bit with no dithering, and then open a separate CD-mastering project and load each song into that.
     
    An instance of Ozone on the mastering project's master bus supplies the wordlength reduction and dithering, the "prevent intersample clipping" option is turned on, and the limiter mode is "brickwall" with a threshold of -0.03 dB. Sometimes I also use Ozone's EQ as a rumble filter, with a steep rolloff around 30 Hz.
     
    A prerequisite for this method working is that each song should be mastered to a common loudness standard. That way, all the songs are going to already be pretty close in volume. A volume envelope in the master project can be used for minor tweaks (identify the quietest song in the collection and adjust everything else to it), generally no more than 1 or 2 dB to match volumes.
     
    I load each song into a single stereo track in the mastering project. That makes it easy to re-sequence them if I want, and to precisely set the gaps and crossfades.
     
    I don't ever use the standard 2-second gaps that CD-burning software sticks in by default. Instead, I set the gaps by ear in the mastering project. For example, a transition from an up-tempo rocker to a ballad might warrant a longer silence. I like to count beats as I'm listening, so that the next song comes in on the beat of the previous song. I'm also fond of crossfades, which works great when two consecutive songs are in the same key with similar tempos.
     
    This procedure lets me preview a CD album in its entirety, exactly as a listener will hear it. Once I'm happy with the sequence, volume-matching and gaps, I export the whole shebang as one big 16-bit wave file. 
     
    At this point, your CD-burning application sees only one file, and will create only one index marker. You have to now go in and manually set index markers on each song. Most CD-burning software will let you do this.
     
    WARNING: if you send this master out for replication, be sure to send along a note that they are NOT to put in gaps between the songs. Tell them it's gapless. I had a thousand disks come back with 100ms gaps between every song after having painstakingly adjusted every crossfade. And it was a live album, so it sounded especially weird. I would have been furious had it not been my own damn fault for failing to give explicit instructions.


    Thank you Mr. Bitflipper, sir, for your confirmation of the way that I mix/master.. finish out my songs.. i thought that I was doing it backwards ... thanks

    Regards,
    Del
     
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    #13
    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/13 11:24:32 (permalink)
    Well, it kind of is backwards, compared to traditional methods. But in our current DIY digital world there's really no need to always base our methods on how it was done decades ago. 


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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 16:17:52 (permalink)
    Question: when converting audio to a wave file to send into stand alone to work on, what is the best dB level to convert at or to? Also, my songs are recorded @ 64 bit, when converting to a wave, should I drop to 24 or 16 bit for Ozone? Thank You.

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    clintmartin
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 16:50:46 (permalink)
    I would leave some headroom to work with. -6 to -12db would be fine. Are you sure you recorded at 64bit? I bet it's 24bit, but you can always export as is and see if Ozone will load it. It will probably convert it if necessary for you. and I wouldn't dither until your completely finished and ready to go to cd. Then dither to 16bit 44.1 kHz. Ozone should have a nice dithering tool. 

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 18:01:42 (permalink)
    He may have recorded it at 64 bits, that is an option. A waste of disk space, but it is supported by SONAR.
     
    In any case, it's best to export the data as 32-bit floating point for Ozone (or 24-bit integer if that's how it was recorded), and leave at least 6dB of headroom (8-12dB even better) so Ozone's limiter has some room to work in. Dither is not necessary when exporting. Ozone will take care of that, and has an excellent dither algorithm.


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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 18:18:55 (permalink)
    I've tried to export into Ozone at 64 bit and it did not support so I dropped it to 16 and it was fine....do I need to convert the wave to 16 or stay with 24 or 32 until dithering at the end?

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 19:36:56 (permalink)
    Ozone probably can't deal with 64-bit audio, but you don't want to go all the way down to 16 bits. Export it at 32 bits, no dither. Then just check the MBit+ box in Ozone to use its own dither algorithm.
     
    BTW, there is no benefit to rendering at 64 bits within SONAR. You're just burning up twice the disk space for no benefit. Set your render bit depth to 32.


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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 19:40:46 (permalink)
    Learn something new everyday. I didn't know Sonar could record at 64bits.

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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 20:34:35 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    Ozone probably can't deal with 64-bit audio, but you don't want to go all the way down to 16 bits. Export it at 32 bits, no dither. Then just check the MBit+ box in Ozone to use its own dither algorithm.
     
    BTW, there is no benefit to rendering at 64 bits within SONAR. You're just burning up twice the disk space for no benefit. Set your render bit depth to 32.


    That would probably explain my diminishing disk space.... Thank you Mr.

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    John
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 20:39:57 (permalink)
    keneds
    What My initial approach was before I opened this post was to open a fresh project and call it "masters". Each track (or song, wave file) would have its own instance of Ozone loaded into it because each song has its own needs ( let's just say it's a ten song project ). I would solo the song I'm working on and mute the others. Once all are done......I would bounce all songs to a single stereo track, gap accordingly, and convert that "Album" track to a wave file @ 16 bits. Is this a suitable way to do this? I just want to start out in the right direction from the start, that's why I come here to pick up pieces of the knowledge that is here.

    That is what I do. I have a project with a single track for importing audio to master. On my master buss. I have a bunch of plugins for mastering and for analysis that are bypassed unless I think one or another is needed.  For example the LP 64 is the very first plugin but its bypassed. If I need it its there in what I think is the proper position. I also use the Pro Channel modules.
     
    The list of plugins includes T-Racks and stereo enhancers and BBE modules and the like plus Ozone 4, 5 and now 6. Its simple to use but is also versatile.  
     
     

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    #22
    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 20:41:31 (permalink)
    It can't actually record at 64 bits. All recordings are 24-bit (or 20-bit plus 4 bits of noise if you want to get picky about it) but is converted to 32 bits within SONAR by simply tacking on some zeroes. If you specify 64 bits, it just tacks on a bunch more zeroes.


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    #23
    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/17 22:47:44 (permalink)
    Made the bit rate adjustments to 24, Nextly........final output levels between songs ( I'm doing this in stand alone mode ) the wave files are being imported @ -6 dB. With my output being set at 0 dB, I am averaging all the final output volumes between songs around -9.5 to -10 RMS with no clipping on the input and output channels. It's seems to be coming together fine, assuming I'm on the right path.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/18 10:34:12 (permalink)
    Be sure to post your results in the Songs forum when you're done, Ken. Lots of experienced songmakers there who'll happily offer advice.
     
    BTW, bit RATE refers to the sample rate, how many samples per second, e.g. 44.1 KHz. Bit DEPTH, or wordlength, refers to the number of bits in each sample, e.g. 24 bits. So it's bit DEPTH that you've adjusted, not bit rate. Not to nit-pick (bit-pick?), but getting the terminology straight will help in future conversations.


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    #25
    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/18 12:24:47 (permalink)
    Got it. Thanks for your help.

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    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/28 19:39:48 (permalink)
    Question, Let's say I have all twelve songs completed in ozone 6. How do I send all tracks to disk ( using stand alone mode ) can I preview all of the songs from start to finish without having to manually start each song to check for proper spacing?

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    EZdrummer2 / EZmix2

    #27
    Vastman
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    Re: Ozone question 2014/11/28 22:49:41 (permalink)
    WOW!  You guys answered sooooo many questions I had in this thread!   Who'd of thunk it... was just curious about ozone!

    Dana
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    #28
    keneds
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    Re: Ozone question 2015/01/11 10:19:19 (permalink)
    After all is good at the end of working with my songs in Ozone, what are the benefits of Sony cd architect? Is it a wise purchase?

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    EZdrummer2 / EZmix2

    #29
    bitflipper
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    Re: Ozone question 2015/01/11 11:03:10 (permalink)
    CDA can't do anything that most generic CD-burning programs can also do. However, because it's oriented specifically to audio CDs some things are more convenient. Whether or not it's worth spending a hundred bucks on depends on how often you create CD compilations. 


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