Stereo Track Trickery!? (Reamping)

1) Need more info - what kind of interface, what kind of outputs from the gear. For example, with the TASCAM US-2x2 or Roland Octa-Capture, the inputs are mono but paired. So for example, you would plug your DI into input 1, your mic pre into input 2, then select inputs 1+2 in SONAR to have one on the left and one on the right.
 
2) The Channel Tools plug-in will do what you want and more.
 
3) Sounds like Selection Groups is what you want. This seems to be a SONAR feature a lot of people overlook.

200bpm
...What I would like to do is create stereo tracks, the left side is the DI, the right side is the miked signal...
...how would I take the R signal and center it?  (Also need to mute the left)  Basically I need to have independent pan control of the right channel asif it was a mono track...

If you have a stereo track with DI left and mic right, you can set the track to mono (by clicking the Interleave button, which is visible in Console View or in the Track Inspector). Use clip automation (i.e. clip pan) to control the balance between DI'd and mic'd signals.

On the other hand, if you want to use the two signals separately, you can Bounce To Tracks and select the option Split Mono.

The part many people no longer notice is that in SONAR an XLR input labeled "analog input 2" on your hardware will show up as something like "Right analog input 1" in your SONAR input selection dialogs.
 
After the first 15 years, you kinda get used to it. ;-)
 
 
 
 
 
Regardless of how few people may care to do something, doing exactly what the OP has asked about, "When recording a stereo track, is there a way to assign the left and right with non-contiguous inputs?", is easy and breezy in the other 3 DAWs I use and it's easy in a few DAWs I don't use. You just set up the I/O to suit the way you wish to work.
 
 

Arguably this routing matrix is a function of the hardware interface rather than the DAW. The reason it isn't in SONAR is because many professional audio interfaces provide such a matrix that allows you to group channels into logical DAW inputs or outputs. RME, MOTU and Lynx are some that come to mind.
I havent really seen a lot of requests for this matrix functionality in SONAR probably for the same reasons.. Also I can see the use case but it isn't such a common requirement to want to record non contiguous channels into a single stereo wave. The question to the OP would be why not use contiguous channels on your audio interface - is there something preventing you from doing so?

As I've mentioned before, I use Ableton Live for live performance and consider it a very innovative program. However, it's the worst program for hardware assignments because there is no way to change the labeling. If you have an input with a ton of I/O, often the master L/R will be considered output 1+2. So what's labeled output 1 is what Live considers 3. Every time I test a new interface with Live, I have to plug things into different inputs and outputs, and enable inputs and outputs in Live one at a time so I can draw up a chart of what relates to what.
 
As to a matrix input, I agree with Noel...most interfaces have applets to do the routing, and handle situations unique to particular interfaces. Personally, I find setting up a matrix within a DAW annoying. It's simpler for me just to assign a track to an input.

Anderton

mike_mccue
Some folks are so used to it, they don't notice the inconvenience.

Another possibility is that the need to do this is sufficiently rare that few people care. It's up to the OP to decide if "You would plug your DI into input 1, your mic pre into input 2, then select inputs 1+2 in SONAR to have one on the left and one on the right" is that much of an inconvenience. As far as I can tell he's talking about 2 mono sources.
 
For me it doesn't matter because regardless of what DAW I use, I have enough audio interface inputs that everything's patched in and I don't need a patch bay. That setup also makes SONAR's Selected Track Inputs feature a useful time-saver.

I can workaround this because I have a UFX.  I could even use loopback to move inputs/output.  However, I make heavy use of the four mic pres, and if I want a DI/mic stereo input pair, I need to give up one of the mic pres for use as a DI.
 
I am returning to Sonar after 10-15 years, but from an "outsiders" perspective, this is one of those things that NEEDS to be changed.  Long time users are probably used to it, but people coming from other daws will think "amateur hour."  Thats just how I see it.
 
I also dislike how sonar prepends left, right, stereo.  My interface has twelve independent analog inputs, none of them are stereo unless I say they are.. .
 
OTH, the Channel Tools is a nice feature.
 
 

John
What is wrong with having the tracks as mono next to one another? Name each what you want. They are mono anyway.
 
I don't see a reason to use stereo.  

Because having a track with miced signal and the DI so it can be reamped makes everything easier to organize.  It gets even more complicated with a second mic.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
>>However, I make heavy use of the four mic pres, and if I want a DI/mic stereo input pair, I need to give up one of the mic pres for use as a DI.
 
OK I get why you want non contiguous channels. Since you have a UFX I think this can easily be done by using Totalmix to route the specific input channels you want to a contiguous pair of DAW inputs. Is there some reason why this doesn't work for you?
 
SONAR supports multiple driver models - ASIO/WDM/WASAPI and some of these only support stereo channels. From the DAW point of view all inputs are treated as stereo pairs. This is the reason for the stereo grouping historically. 

I'll look into what totalmix can do.  I believe I will have to do a loopback but Totalmix always surprises me, maybe there is this feature built in.

200bpm
Some questions about stereo tracks used for reamping.
 
What I would like to do is create stereo tracks, the left side is the DI, the right side is the miked signal.  I like to work this way because it keeps clips organized.
 

 
Some of our heavy duty artists use this method for Reamping. You're not alone!
 

200bpm
1) When recording a stereo track, is there a way to assign the left and right with non-contiguous inputs?  The DI and mic pre are not a stereo pair.
 

 
Yes, your inputs should be listed as Stereo, Left, and Right for a single pair. Left acts as the odd number in the pair and Rights acts as the even number in the pair. So Inputs 1 would be: Inputs 1-2 (Left) and Input 2 would be Inputs 1-2(Right). Obviously Inputs 1-2(Stereo) is both.
 

200bpm
2) In SONAR, how would I take the R signal and center it?  (Also need to mute the left)  Basically I need to have independent pan control of the right channel asif it was a mono track.
 

 
Check out the Channel Tools plugin. It has the ability to do this when you insert it on a stereo track that has the DI Signal in the left and mic signal in the right.
 

200bpm
3) Is there a facility to link clips together so that when one is copied/moved, so is the other?
 

 
There is, yes. Check out the Clip Groups.

Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Yes, your inputs should be listed as Stereo, Left, and Right for a single pair. Left acts as the odd number in the pair and Rights acts as the even number in the pair. So Inputs 1 would be: Inputs 1-2 (Left) and Input 2 would be Inputs 1-2(Right). Obviously Inputs 1-2(Stereo) is both.

 
Dan he wants to use non contiguous inputs to record to a single stereo track so he cant do that in SONAR.
I know Totalmix allows internally routing inputs to arbitrary hardware outs but I'm not sure if it allows arbitrary routing of inputs to DAW channels...

@200bpm, I'm a RME UCX user. I now use the fiber cable that came with the interface to loopback all ADAT channels for live monitoring. It's kinda useful. I know you know about the loopback button on a pair of outputs, but when you use that button the inputs cannot be routed again to the hardware outputs. If you use the fiber cable to loopback the ADAT channels, you can loop back as many times as you want (stacking the eqs and compressors). Just at tip.
 
Using my RME UCX, the only way to conjoin two non contiguous tracks into a stereo track in Sonar is to loopback (either using ADAT fiber or the Totalmix Loopback button) or record as mono tracks and bounce to stereo.
 
@200BPm, you can save snapshots and workspaces in Totalmix to bring them back up quickly. Remember the Total Reset under options - reset mix.
 
Lastly, if you aren't using RME DigiCheck, you should totally check it out!! Things I use regularly in Digi Check are the Spectral Analyzer, the Vector Scope, the EBU Meter, and Global Record. Global record is really worth checking out for making live recordings where you do all your mixing in Total Mix. No need to mess with Sonar until the show is captured. It writes all the audio data to a single file and it writes it very efficiently. Saves me a ton of time and headache when I'm not going to be monitoring anything out of Sonar.
 
Also, thanks for suggesting the organization of the two tracks into a stereo pair. It'd never considered doing this before your post and I can appreciate it as a good way to keep the two together and organized.
 
I mainly use a track template for recording the guitar which has the direct input, left and right stereo track for my Roland GR20 outputs and a midi track. I love that you can group the midi with the audio. Set this under preferences > Project > Record > Multi-Track Grouping - (I use group only in folders).
 
Using Multi-Track Grouping allows you to edit across many tracks (not just 2) splitting, cropping, nudging etc. Or using Fast Comp tools.

Hi Noel, Yes, I agree that a discussion about the friendly names doesn't address the OPs concerns.
 
The work arounds choices for the OP have already been described.
 
1) Record as dual mono and bounce to stereo after the fact. This is probably worth the trouble if you really value your screen real estate.
 
2) Record as dual mono and open Tools>*audio editor of choice* and convert one of the mono tracks to stereo with the signal on one "side" and add the other track to the empty side. YUCK.
 
3) Use Pro Tools, Cubase, Studio One or Reaper to record the guitar track and then import the track in to SONAR.
 
4) Use some sort of loop back routing with your hardware so instead of using two of the driver's inputs you use four. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
@bpm200, One thing we should mention for the benefit of readers is that direct signals and signals from a mic'ed amp often exhibit different "times of arrival". One can either leave the signals with the relative offset or endeavor to align them so that there is no timing offset. I imagine you know this from your experience but it occurs to me that it should be acknowledged that the two discrete channels in a two track such as you are describing will either have, or not have, a relative timing offset depending on if, and or where, you make a choice about whether you will adjust, or not adjust, for the offset. 
 
 

mike,
I don't notice any effective delay.  Because the miked signal is a real amplifier, there is no additional latency added.  When I later reamp with multi-mics, I arrange the mics so that there are no phase issues.
 

Hi 200bpm, I was trying to leave lots of room for the idea that there are many ways to either address the timing offset or perhaps not even worry about it.
 
The idea that you address the timing during the Reamp process seems like a very natural way to do it. Thanks for explaining. 
 
 

I understand. However it looks like the benefit to recording a single stereo wave with a reamp and normal channel seems more trouble than its worth. Rather than allowing for something like this, perhaps the community would be better served by us adding some UI and editing features to allow dealing with multiple mono track groups better.