Helpful ReplyBSOD - got a couple of questions

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dwardzala
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2014/10/27 11:07:43 (permalink)

BSOD - got a couple of questions

I am getting a BSOD on DAW computer, here is a little bit of background before I get to my questions:
I normally leave my workstation on all the time usually with iTunes up, but not with Sonar running, and my displays off.
I have experienced several computer restarts that I am pretty sure were BSODs (one confirmed because I saw it happen).  Many of these occurred when no applications were running at the time.
 
The one I did see stated that the system was stopped to protect hardware, but since I have it set to re-boot automatically, I did not catch the details of the issue.  The event viewer was not really helpful, but that may be because I don't know what to look for.
 
So after that lengthy preamble, here are my questions:
If I change the settings so that the computer does not reboot on a BSOD, do I risk any damage to my hardware if it sits on the BSOD for a day or so?
What should I be looking for in the event viewer to help me diagnose the problem?
Is there any other source of information that could lead me to the cause of the issue?
 
Thanks in advance for the assistance.
 

Dave
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#1
lawp
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/27 11:17:08 (permalink)
yes, change the setting so it doesn't restart; no, it won't hurt the pc
 
here's a guide to deciphering bsods: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/blue_screen_death_survival_guide_every_error_explained
 
good luck!

sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
#2
fireberd
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/27 14:47:55 (permalink)
If it "stopped to protect hardware", that is usually indicative of a hardware issue.
Suggest you post this on the Windows 7 forum, where there are "techies" that can really get into it and help you.
 
http://www.sevenforums.com/bsod-help-support/
 
And the instructions for creating a log of the problems and posting and including it in your post.
http://www.sevenforums.com/bsod-help-support/96879-blue-screen-death-bsod-posting-instructions.html
 

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#3
bitflipper
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/27 15:08:14 (permalink)
I prefer that the computer NOT reboot itself after a crash, simply to assure that I notice it if happens. It makes no difference to system integrity either way.
 
More often than not, the Event Viewer has no useful information after a GPF. It's still worth looking at, though. Filter out everything but warnings and errors, and then check the System category, as this will be where you most likely see indications of Windows and hardware-related problems.
 
If it's SONAR that's crashing, the Event Viewer probably won't be any help. Any useful information will be found in SONAR's minidumps. If it's a plugin causing the crash, here's a thread about that.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#4
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/29 09:00:40 (permalink)
Thanks for all the help - now I am just waiting for a BSOD (been 3 days without one).

Dave
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#5
Mesh
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/29 15:22:11 (permalink)
dwardzala
Thanks for all the help - now I am just waiting for a BSOD (been 3 days without one).


Reverse Murphy's Law? lol....
Have you checked to make sure all your hardware (internal and external) drivers are up to date? 

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#6
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/30 09:29:57 (permalink)
I haven't checked in a month or so, but for non-audio h/w I usually get an informational message stating there is a new driver (e.g. nVidia) but I control the installation..
 
I did do a couple of windows updates since the last BSOD, so perhaps that corrected whatever issue it was as well.

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#7
Mesh
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/30 09:45:37 (permalink)
Well, at least the good part is no more BSOD's. Hopefully, it'll continue to behave properly as it should.

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jbow
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/30 10:00:08 (permalink)
Wow, I hope it is gone. I haven't seen one since W-98 or ME. I thought with W7, better drivers, CPUs etc they were pretty much eliminated. I'd freak out if I got one!
Say it ain't so...
I REALLY hope you don't see it again!
 
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#9
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/31 08:49:34 (permalink)
I hope they are gone to, but the engineer (non audio type) in me doesn't like things to just disappear without knowing why or confirming that whatever I changed actually eliminated the problem (A/B/A test).
 
In any case, thanks to all who have provided advice and assistance.  I will post if it occurs again.

Dave
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#10
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/10/31 09:24:04 (permalink)
An updated driver could have fixed the problems.  One note, the hardware driver updates from Microsoft update is not always the most recent driver.  If you get the driver from the PC vendor/motherboard vendor or from the chip hardware vendor (e.g. RealTek audio) the Microsoft updates version can be one or two versions behind.  Microsoft has a validation process and that can take months before its validated.
 
 

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#11
Living Room Rocker
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/11/19 13:56:48 (permalink)
I am guessing that the BSOD is caused by the monitor being turned off and Windows doing it's security check (or whatever security program installed) only to find that the monitor is not responding.  It is likely that a driver update may fix the problem.  But it does sounds like this is the likely cause, likely on account that likely, hardware is likely to cause likely behavior in a likely scenario in likely configuration, likely because of likely changes of likely disabled, likely problematic services, likely as such likely cases likely.
 
Kind regards,
 
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/11/20 10:29:33 (permalink)
If you encounter BSOD while the system is essentially idle:
  • Disable any over-clocking (don't think this applies to the OP's case)
  • Test the system's memory
 

Best Regards,

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#13
BeowulfX
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/11/21 04:55:44 (permalink)
Well hopefully it's not one of those infrequent but recurring "physical memory dump error" type of BSODs...last time I had those in my DAW, I thought it was one of the RAM sticks that was going out and I replaced the sticks a few days later but still no luck --- the BSOD "memory dump error" just reappeared from time to time...sometimes even without me doing anything on the PC (i.e. PC is just idle). A couple of days after I installed/bought the RAM sticks the HDD started to give a "clicking" sound (like its stuck or something) and would take some time to boot to desktop. I replaced the drive with a new one (with an image of system drive) and hadn't experienced the BSOD "memory dump error" eversince. Weird...didn't know exactly if it were my old physical RAM sticks that were the cause or the HDD...
 
Hope you find the cause of your DAW's BSOD...

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#14
tlw
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/11/21 19:56:39 (permalink)
Bear in mind that even when idling Windows will be doing all kinds of background jobs. I had a series of BSODs under Win7 that happened overnight on a PC left to sleep.

Apart that is from the task scheduler which woke it up to do assorted stuff in the small hours, like backups, defrags etc. In the end the problem turned out to be a faulty DVD drive. Which I pretty much never used so jadn't had a problem with, but for whatever reason something in the scheduled tasks, indexing, whatever was trying to at least get it to respond, at which point it would sometimes crash the driver.

Googling the hex code that the BSOD gives you and the other information in it can usually give at least some idea of what's going on.

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FastBikerBoy
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/11/23 13:46:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2014/12/18 19:16:07
Here's a link to a thread that explains how to decipher dump files. Although written for XP it is still relevant.
#16
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/11/24 22:27:46 (permalink)
Heh - if only posting a thread about the issue would just magically solve it every time, but in this case it seems to have (or more likely a driver update or windows update).
 
4 wks, no BSODs.  Life is good.

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#17
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/15 09:06:05 (permalink)
So the BSODs are back.  Had two in the last week.  First one happened when the computer was idling with I think iTunes running but not playing (I was not at the computer when it happened).  The second happened with iTunes playing a song.
 
Both errors were Memory Management Errors.  Google really didn't turn up a lot of useful information on how to proceed.  It seems it could be due to a memory module going bad, loose hardware or device drivers overwriting critical information in memory.
 
I am thinking a stress test with Intel's monitoring utility and then possibly some memory testing with memtest.  Any other recommendations?

Dave
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#18
Mesh
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/15 09:19:36 (permalink)
It looks like one or more of your memory sticks are going bad. I would run the Memtest first (overnight) and take it from there.

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#19
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/15 09:38:01 (permalink)
OK, will do.  Thanks.

Dave
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#20
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/15 19:25:33 (permalink)
OK, so I am running Memtest.  Lots of errors.  On test 4 and have 13K and counting.  All seem to be contained to one particular grouping of memory 6144M-8192M.  I have 2x 2G modules and 2x 4G modules, but I don't know if I can assume that it is a 2G module or if it is checking in groups of 2G.  it is v4.3.7 if it matters (the download didn't have v5 on it).

Dave
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#21
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/16 07:58:16 (permalink)
After letting memtest run overnight, it is clear I have a memory issue.  My question now, is it possible to pin-point which module based on the memory address and how would I do that?
 
As noted above, the errors accumulate in 6-8G range (i think the lowest address was 7.1 and the highest was 7.3 but I probably am off by a bit on those.
 
Also mentioned above, I have 12G.  2 x 4G sticks and 2x 2G sticks.  Off the top of my head, I am not sure which modules are in which bank.
 
Obviously I can brute force it, but I'd prefer not swap modules in and out and run memtest on each one.

Dave
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#22
Mesh
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/16 09:57:30 (permalink)
If memory serves me well (no pun in 10 did ), I faintly remember running the memtest on each stick seperately......BUT, I could be wrong and one of the experts might chime in on what's the best method to narrow down the culprit.  
 
Seeing that you have different size RAM sticks in there (2GB & 4GB), wouldn't that also be a cause for RAM issues? (from most things I've read, (IIRC) they mostly stated to keep all RAM sticks the same CAS latency, timings, voltage etc.... and should be compatible with the MB).  

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#23
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/16 10:30:32 (permalink)
Thanks Mesh.
 
Actually, the RAM sticks are the same brand, CAS latency, timing, voltage.  However, it doesn't look like they are stocked by NewEgg anymore, so I will probably be buying all new memory anyway.  If that is the case, I will probably just pull it all out.  But I'd like to know my options.

Dave
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#24
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/26 10:32:44 (permalink)
Really dumb question on this.  For CAS latency is lower better?  I.e. is 7 better than 9 or worse?
 
Also, any opinions on Gskill memory?  I have used ADATA in the past but they don't make the type of memory I want anymore (and its the brand that has failed).

Dave
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#25
Mesh
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/29 10:57:58 (permalink)
dwardzala
Really dumb question on this.  For CAS latency is lower better?  I.e. is 7 better than 9 or worse?
 
Also, any opinions on Gskill memory?  I have used ADATA in the past but they don't make the type of memory I want anymore (and its the brand that has failed).


Lower CAS latency is certainly better (time it takes for the CPU to get a RAM response).
 
Regarding G.Skill, I've only used the Ripjaws series (after reading lots & lots of reviews (which were all good) on it) and I've never had any issues whatsoever since I installed them 18 months ago. 

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#26
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/29 11:34:14 (permalink)
Just pulled the trigger on the RipJaw series a couple of minutes ago.  Glad you endorsed them.

Dave
Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller
Win10 x64 Home
Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d)
 
Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD)
M-Box Mini v. 2
Win 10 x64 Home
Sonar 2016.10 Platinum
 
Check out my original music:
https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
 
 
#27
Mesh
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/29 14:25:00 (permalink)
Great!!!
Hopefully, this will resolve troubleshooting that BSOD error and now you can spend time on the important stuff.........making MUSIC!!!! :))

Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock Formula
I7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X
250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDD
Win 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler 
HIS IceQ  2GB HD 7870
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The_Forum_Monkeys
#28
dwardzala
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Re: BSOD - got a couple of questions 2014/12/31 17:47:26 (permalink)
 Memory arrived today - NewEgg for the win (4-7 day shipping arrives in about 48hrs).  Memory is installed and I should be ready to kick the new year off right for making music.
 
Thanks to all who offered suggestions and assistance!

Dave
Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller
Win10 x64 Home
Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d)
 
Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD)
M-Box Mini v. 2
Win 10 x64 Home
Sonar 2016.10 Platinum
 
Check out my original music:
https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
 
 
#29
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