Getting Started

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DallasSteve
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2014/11/15 17:32:49 (permalink)

Getting Started

I've been watching the tutorial videos and reading the Help tutorial sections and I have gone from understanding almost nothing about Music Creator to understanding a little more than almost nothing.  Background: 20 years ago I created about 20 songs in Cakewalk.  Ancient times.  I'm trying to get back into it because my son is interested and I think it could be a good hobby again.  The new software looks fantastic, but the Help is not as helpful as I need (and I am a computer programmer with a college degree in Accounting - not the dumbest kid on the block).
 
I want to be able to record from my Yamaha keyboard to MIDI tracks and from an electric guitar and microphone to audio tracks.  That doesn't seem like too much to ask.  I've got MC 6 loaded onto my Windows 7 laptop with 4 GB RAM.  I also have a Behringer mixer I can use when I know what to do with it.  I loaded an old MIDI song in Music Creator 6.  The first thing is does when I open an old MIDI file is tell me that there is bus A is assigned to a silent hardware output.  So I go to Help to learn about buses.  If buses are fundamental to using MC6 why is there no Help section about buses?  That is not a naturally obvious concept.  I did a search for bus in MC Help and there is very little directly related.  How am I even supposed to look at the buses?  I happened to stumble across the Console view and I think I see the buses now.  But it has no option to select Output, only Input.  Geez, Cakewalk, a little info would be nice.
 
So I tried to play the song.  At first there is no sound.  So I went through the tutorials and I added the Cakewalk Sound Center synth.  After much stress I finally found some combination of settings that got sound running through the synth.  I assigned the output from my MIDI track to the Cakewalk Sound Center which appears as a separate track which can also contain events.  How should I get my old MIDI tracks assigned to the soft synth?  The MIDI tracks have little MIDI plug symbols and the synth track has a keyboard symbol.  What kind of track is that?  How is it different than a MIDI track?  Should I add a soft synth for each MIDI track in the song and then drag the events to the soft synth track and then delete the empty MIDI track?  Should I keep the MIDI events in a separate track so that I can assign them to my Yamaha for output later?  And how do I get so many MIDI tracks reproduced by synths when I suppose they have a limit of how many notes they can produce at one time?  Right now the MIDI is in separate tracks and the MIDI track is assigned to the synth track.  But it uses whatever sound I assigned to the synth track.  Changing the patch on the MIDI track does nothing.  And what is a Bank?  And what does it mean that most of my MIDI tracks have no Bank, and the first Bank available is named Bank zero?
 
Is there any hope that someone can understand this without taking a 6-week course?  Where would you suggest I start, or can you explain a few things that will clear this all up?  I'm about to give up.  It's more complicated than learning a computer language (well, not quite, but almost).  Is the mixer just used to monitor guitar and vocal while I'm recording or will I need it during playback too?  Do I need to buy some special sound card for my laptop?  So many questions.
 
post edited by DallasSteve - 2014/11/15 17:54:25
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    scook
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 18:05:31 (permalink)
    Bus help section http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Music%20Creator%206%20Touch&language=3&help=Mixing.09.html
     
    When working with pre-existing MIDI TTS-1 may be an easier synth to work with.
     
    Information on the different track types http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Music%20Creator%206%20Touch&language=3&help=Inspectors.2.html Notice the icons in the Inspector images, they correspond to the icons in the track view.
     
    A synth needs
    • at least one MIDI track for input and one Audio track for output OR
    • an instrument track. Instrument tracks are a combination of a MIDI track and Audio track.
    TTS-1 is a multi-timbral synth capable of playing 16 MIDI tracks out to 4 audio tracks with one instance of the plug-in. It is the only multi-timbral synth included with MC. The rest of the synths require a separate instance for each MIDI track.
     
    It is hard to suggest a way to organize MIDI data as everyone has their own workflow. You will need to develop a workflow that meets your needs. Usually keeping instruments in separate tracks is the most flexible approach.
     
    In MC the banks don't mean much except for TTS-1 which has several banks of sounds. Your keyboard may also use them but it will require an instrument definition file for the keyboard.
     
    It is going to take some time to become proficient with any DAW. Start with the tutorials and simple projects of your own. There is a lot to learn.
     
    While you may be able to get by using the sound chip in the PC, most end up buying a dedicated audio interface designed for DAW use. The sound chips in PCs are great for playback but are not designed for synchronous playback and recording.
    #2
    DallasSteve
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 19:24:33 (permalink)
    scook - Thanks.  That helps some.  I'll keep studying.  Is the dedicated audio interface a separate piece of hardware or is it software that I can download into my laptop?  How would I find more information about them?  I did a quick Google search and it displayed some images for mixers like my Behringer.  Is that what I need to be using?  I can understand how it helps avoid latency in hearing playback during recording.  Do I need to use it during final mix-down to the finished song or can that be done with Music Creator 6 itself?
    #3
    scook
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 19:35:33 (permalink)
    Audio interfaces are a separate piece of hardware. Here is a page from a vendor for USB connected interface in the $100-200 price range http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces/popular/params=eyJkaW1lbnNpb24iOnsiUHJpY2UgUmFuZ2UiOlsiNyJdfX0
     to give you an idea of the what is available. These units typically have 2-4 inputs, some have MIDI I/O, headphone and monitor outputs but more importantly decent drivers. Low latency is not necessary during mixing. Popular brands are focusrite, presonus, akai, roland and steinburg.
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    DallasSteve
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 19:54:20 (permalink)
    scook: I set up the TTS and now I'm starting to get somewhere.  I can play two tracks on different voices and control their sounds from the patch setting.  I think using it instead of Cakewalk Sound Center solves a lot of my problems.  It's pretty amazing all the software included for the $19.99 I spent this time.  When I bought Cakewalk 20 years ago it cost about $100 and it didn't have 1/10th the ability that Music Creator 6 has today.  I see there is a ton of features built into just TTS.  Wow!
    #5
    DallasSteve
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 20:04:22 (permalink)
    scook: I'm playing a MIDI track and some of the notes play a sound and some don't.  I'm looking at them in the piano roll and event views and I don't see anything unusual about the notes that don't make a sound.  This is a MIDI file I produced in my old, old Cakewalk software.  Do you have any idea why some notes wouldn't make a sound, and others do?
    #6
    scook
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 20:07:15 (permalink)
    Yes, TTS-1 is a good synth to start with. The sounds aren't bad and it is easy to set up. TTS-1 can be a pain at higher sample rates otherwise it is a handy tool.
    #7
    scook
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 20:13:15 (permalink)
    Dropped notes is almost always a playback buffer problem. I believe MC6 has a "Prepare Using nnn Milliseconds Buffers" setting in Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording. Try increasing the buffer from 250 to 500 or 750.
     
    #8
    DallasSteve
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/15 21:17:35 (permalink)
    scook: You were right.  I moved the buffer to 500 and the notes played.  Thanks again.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/16 10:14:24 (permalink)
    Greetings and welcome.
     
    I too came back to digital recording after a period of only about 5 years or so. I had been on Cakewalk pro 8 and due to OS upgrades and drivers unavailable for the sound card, I got out of recording. When I returned, the OS was Vista and XP was new.... and the DAW available was Music Creator 4.  I had read enough on the forums to know I needed an external interface to handle the sound input & output.  So yes, buying a decent interface IS THE WAY TO GO.
     
    Even with the right gear, it took me almost 2 frustrating weeks before I got sound out of the speakers.  There is a learning curve and don't let your computer programming education fool you into thinking it should be easy because of that..... we're on this side of that fence. You must join us here and learn this as we did. Come to the dark side.....  The learning curve applies to everyone.... how quickly you get up the curve depends on you.  We're here to help answer questions when you run into road blocks. No doubt, we've been there before and can assist.
     
    Once you get the inputs and outputs figured out it becomes simpler. Once you get the interface setup, it should not change, again, making things simple.  You will always need to select the desired input and output to a given track and buss.....
     
    For now, think of a buss as a track that can accept the input of several tracks.  Such as several guitars or several vocal tracks with all of them needing the same FX treatment. You can have as many busses as you want. I use them and often have 4 to 6 busses depending on the project at hand. Envision a pyramid..... tracks at the bottom, busses on top of that and the master buss at the top. Signal flow is up.
     
    Divide the musical world into 2 segments.... audio is one..... midi is the other.  
     
    Audio is simple..... sound from a mic or audio input goes to the interface, the signal is routed by software to a track. You choose the input for that track from a list of ALL the audio inputs the software can "see" in the computer.  Output from the track is defaulted to the master output buss and from there to the interface and the speakers.
     
    Midi is similar.... but there is no audio in the initial stages. You set up midi tracks and select the input from the available midi input sources, and that data gets recorded into a midi track. There is an associated or linked audio track with that midi track. The audio track will contain the inputs and outputs of a software synth which you have selected previously. The midi date goes to the synth and the synth plays the audio. the rest of the process is described ion the audio paragraph.
     
    Midi can also be assigned to channels. Many synths  ( cake walk sound center is one) are one channel synths. TTS, mentioned in posts above are multi-channel synths and you can assign up to 16 different instruments to that ONE INSTANCE of the synth in your project.
     
    Some time back, I created this page to assist other folks who were getting started:  http://www.herbhartley.com/hh2_edited_slimmer_005.htm
     
    Read through it carefully. If you have questions come back and ask specifically about an issue. Look down the page to ADVANCED TTS and work through it.
     
    Hope this wasn't too insultingly basic..... but do ask questions if you get stuck or just want to know.
     
    MC6, while called the "beginner" level DAW by cake, is anything but "beginner" in what it can do. I used MC4 as my DAW for many years and it did a fine job. I have since upgraded to X1essentials, which is now pretty old as well..... but have a listen to some of the music on my website music page which I created with these "basic level" DAW's. 
     
     

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #10
    jimfogle
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/22 20:53:36 (permalink)
    Welcome back to Cakewalk and the wonderful world of music production.  The increase in computer processing power, decrease in the cost of memory and software has made the present a great time for recording.
     
    Perhaps you would enjoy learning more about recording, music production and Music Creator 6.  Coursera.org offers a FREE Introduction to Music Production class.  The class is by the Berklee School of Music.
     
    If you're more the reading type you may want to check "Home Recording for Musicians" by Jeff Strong.  It's a Dummies book and in it's fifth edition.  You are able to find earlier editions for a discounted price.
     
    Finally, Music Creator's video tutorials were created by Groove3.  Groove3 offers a complete video series for Music Creator for the same price you paid for Music Creator.  I have the videos stored on my hard drive for easy access and quick reference.  It's nice to be able to review a segment whenever I desire.

    Jim F
    Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB)
    Sonar Home Studio V23.9.0 build 32
    Music Creator 6
    Band-in-a-Box, Audacity, ChordPulse
    Win 7, i3 cpu, 8Gig ram, 480 Gig Dell Laptop
    http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
     
     
    #11
    DallasSteve
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/22 23:28:10 (permalink)
    Jim
     
    Thanks for the tips.  Part of the reason I've returned to Cakewalk is because my teenage son told me that he is interested in music production as a career.  I will suggest that he look into these resources, too.
     
    Steve
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Getting Started 2014/11/26 08:00:22 (permalink)
    For some reason, during one of the releases or maintenance updates, those buffer values changed, down to 250 from their prior values of 500.
     
    For many, this has caused no issues, but every now and then, someone experiences dropouts and such, like what has been happening to you, and the fix always seems to be to put those buffer values back up to 500, or even raise them to 750.
     
    Glad you are working now - that change to Sonar's default values for those buffers has always been a head scratcher, for precisely the reasons we see here - in that 250 may just be too small to be a good value for defaults for those buffers.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #13
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