Kylotan
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Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
As a relatively recent convert to X3 from 8.5 I have barely touched the ProChannel. One reason why I've not adopted it is because I spend 98% of my time in Track View, and from there I can't see which effects are enabled on a track without first scrolling to and clicking on that track. (In fact it's a bit of a distraction to have one ProChannel displayed in the Inspector on the left when it's often nothing to do with the track or clip I'm working on, as actions like selecting a clip or arming a track don't select that track in the Inspector).
Is there any way to get the ProChannel settings visible inside Track View?
If not, what are the convenient ways to work with it, for someone who only really uses Track View?
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stickman393
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 17:26:58
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I - Inspector, pro-channel tab.
It will show the pro-channel for the selected track in Track View, on whichever side it's docked.
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 17:30:30
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Yes, the letter "I" is Key-Binded to open info on tracks in track view. Once you have opened that up ProChannel will be one of the tabs. In my track view the I opens on the left hand side. I think it is moveable like the multidock.
hope that helps....
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 17:51:03
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ooops Stickman beat me to it.
But after re-reading your post, I think you might want to view multiple Pro Channels. I would suggest using Screensets and bounce back and forth between Track View and Console View. 2 monitors makes that very easy.
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drewfx1
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 17:55:58
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 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Anderton
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 18:04:21
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Jimbo 88
ooops Stickman beat me to it.
But after re-reading your post, I think you might want to view multiple Pro Channels. I would suggest using Screensets and bounce back and forth between Track View and Console View. 2 monitors makes that very easy.
Or use the D command to go back and forth between track and console view. I think D is my most-used keyboard shortcut. When in Console view, open up one ProChannel while holding Ctrl and they all open up. It's a pretty spectacular graphic display that wows clients.  Although there actually is a useful aspect...makes it easy to see if all the Console Emulators are enabled.
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John
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 18:30:57
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The Inspector is also one of my favorite features in the X series. I remember when I first saw the Inspector in X 1 I liked it right away.
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Karyn
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 18:31:08
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☄ Helpfulby drewfx1 2014/11/26 18:26:00
Anderton
Although there actually is a useful aspect...makes it easy to see if all the Console Emulators are enabled.
If you have to look to see if they're on... are they actually doing anything? 
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 18:39:39
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I know the Inspector follows the current track, but (a) I don't want to have to explicitly select a track each time I want to see what effects are on it, and (b) I like to be able to see multiple tracks at a glance and compare them. (Like I can with every single other aspect of the track.)
Seems like Console View is the consensus, but I don't like using that. If I can't see markers and clips, I can't play through the track effectively.
D isn't bound to anything in my control scheme so I don't know what that would do. If I try opening Console View it either appears in the Multidock (annoying) or floats separately above the Track View (also annoying). There isn't really room for both onscreen at once. It seems like 8.5 was a bit more intuitive with the views.
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John
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 18:51:28
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D will minimize the multidock and also restore it. I use dual monitors and use the CV floated on the other monitor.
The Inspector will show a lot of information plus it has all the MIDI widgets for controlling MIDI on a track. Track headers don't.
You may want to look at screen sets to customize your view.
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Karyn
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 18:54:50
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Kylotan
(a) I don't want to have to explicitly select a track each time I want to see what effects are on it, and
(b) I like to be able to see multiple tracks at a glance and compare them. (Like I can with every single other aspect of the track.)
You just described console view.
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Anderton
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/26 19:03:12
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Karyn
Anderton
Although there actually is a useful aspect...makes it easy to see if all the Console Emulators are enabled.
If you have to look to see if they're on... are they actually doing anything?
The effect of the CE is cumulative and I use subtle settings. So after I'm finished tracking, I follow my own advice about mixing "through" the CEs...I want to make sure they're all enabled before I get serious about mixing. IMO you can't always tell whether a CE is on or off just by listening to a track, e.g. a treble boost or distortion could be masking the effect if the CE is on, or producing a similar sound if it's off. But if they're all on before you start mixing, you have a baseline reference.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 02:28:20
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There's hardly any views that can't be shown in the X series. It's far more versatile for that than pre-X1 versions, mainly for one reason......(drum roll)........ screensets. A little OTB thinking and experimentation can produce anything (almost). Based on what I have read here I knocked up this.....  which.... - Shows all the tracks and clips.
- Shows the time line and markers.
- Shows all (or as many as your system can view at once) prochannels.
This screenset once set up can be switched to instantly with one key press so you can use it as a check and return to the view you are working in as and when required. *If* that's the sort of thing you mean I can post the steps to produce the view. If it isn't if you can be more precise about what you'd like to see instead and I'll have a go at coming up with another one.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 06:22:22
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Karyn
Kylotan
(a) I don't want to have to explicitly select a track each time I want to see what effects are on it, and
(b) I like to be able to see multiple tracks at a glance and compare them. (Like I can with every single other aspect of the track.)
You just described console view.
Only if you deliberately ignore the next line in that very post.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 06:26:47
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John
D will minimize the multidock and also restore it. I use dual monitors and use the CV floated on the other monitor.
The Inspector will show a lot of information plus it has all the MIDI widgets for controlling MIDI on a track. Track headers don't.
You may want to look at screen sets to customize your view.
Ah, D was probably doing nothing because my multidock is empty. If I could use dual monitors, life would be a bit easier, though I'd still much prefer to be able to see everything about the track next to the track, as in Track View. I suppose by 'MIDI widgets' you mean things like the Arpeggiator? I hadn't noticed they'd been removed from the Track View, to be honest. I think that's a backwards step. I don't think screensets are going to help much - either I can get the Prochannel next to each track as it's playing, or I can't. Swapping between screens is not something I consider an intuitive way of working, even if it is just 1 keypress.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 06:46:02
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FastBikerBoy
A little OTB thinking and experimentation can produce anything (almost). Based on what I have read here I knocked up this.....
which....
- Shows all the tracks and clips.
- Shows the time line and markers.
- Shows all (or as many as your system can view at once) prochannels.
Thanks for this, but I think it's clear to me that what I want is just something Sonar X3 won't do. I need a lot of space for Track View, at least 75% of the height of the screen, because I rely on the Navigator sub-window, and also because I need my buses visible (because Sonar's routing is otherwise half-crippled). Try and fit the Console view in there, which intrinsically also requires a lot of height, and there's no space for it. On top of that the console strips don't line up with the tracks so you can't see what corresponds to what at a quick glance. It's slightly easier if the tracks are coloured, but I have a lot of tracks. Thanks everybody.
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John
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 07:11:19
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Kylotan
John
D will minimize the multidock and also restore it. I use dual monitors and use the CV floated on the other monitor.
The Inspector will show a lot of information plus it has all the MIDI widgets for controlling MIDI on a track. Track headers don't.
You may want to look at screen sets to customize your view.
Ah, D was probably doing nothing because my multidock is empty.
If I could use dual monitors, life would be a bit easier, though I'd still much prefer to be able to see everything about the track next to the track, as in Track View. I suppose by 'MIDI widgets' you mean things like the Arpeggiator? I hadn't noticed they'd been removed from the Track View, to be honest. I think that's a backwards step.
I don't think screensets are going to help much - either I can get the Prochannel next to each track as it's playing, or I can't. Swapping between screens is not something I consider an intuitive way of working, even if it is just 1 keypress.
I'm no expert on screen sets Karl (Fast Biker Boy) is and can help explain them far better than I can. I would not dismiss them out of hand because he has found them to be darn near essential. I have heard members talk about not liking the Inspector for various reasons. For me the Inspector has everything I need dealing with a track. Its all there. Including in the case of audio tracks a view of where the track is outputting to with control is part of the Inspector. Its one of the handiest views Sonar offers. I use two wide screen monitors and I can have the full Inspector open and still see a lot of TV docked on the left side next to the TV. One can also float it to another monitor if one wants. The only way to see all PCs at the same time is in the CV. It akes up a lot of room but with dual monitors its very its not such a problem. As an aside I use the Mulitdock to hold the Browser's Synth rack but not much else. Most times I like to have the TV on the right screen and VSTs on the left screen. Here screen sets are very useful too. They work nicely with dual monitors.  Above is an image of the Inspector showing a MIDI track. To me its a big step forward that I don't have to enlarge a track's header just to get to a parameter. The red arrow points to the transpose widget. I use that often. Over all X3's user friendlessness is top notch. Many DAWs have a data strip on the left for working with tracks but none are as complete and so informative at a glance as the one in X3. Happy Sonaring!
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fwrend
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 07:25:58
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Certainly worth some OTB thinking. Perhaps a FR for a landscape version of the PC for TV.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 07:59:12
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I only ever use the Inspector for things that used to be in the Track View - clip names and advanced MIDI settings (though I hardly ever used those) or right-click clip properties. Having the latter in the inspector is reasonable, because I used to have to click the clip anyway. But now I have to click a track to see what I want to know about it, which is a step backwards in my personal workflow.
I take the point about not wanting the track headers to be expanded. I think I am in the minority because I never used anything other than 'All' for track headers, and I just resized tracks to show as much as was necessary. Being able to fit more tracks vertically is great, but if they're too short then I can't easily slip edit or fade them anyway, and that is what I spend more than half my time doing.
To be honest, if I had 2 monitors, I'd probably still prefer the Console view to be horizontal rather than vertical, so it lines up with the tracks in track view. The current setup is a good metaphor if you are familiar with working with mixing desks, but we don't compose and arrange music on a mixing desk.
I am going to try with the Console in the multidock and use the D command to quickly switch between the two, and see if I end up preferring that workflow. But I don't think it will, because the Prochannel is still not visible when I do that - the vertical nature of the console strip is that all that information is at the top, so I can't see it without scrolling. Maybe in the future when I have 2 monitors for this, it'll be workable.
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John
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 08:05:20
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Kylotan
I only ever use the Inspector for things that used to be in the Track View - clip names and advanced MIDI settings (though I hardly ever used those) or right-click clip properties. Having the latter in the inspector is reasonable, because I used to have to click the clip anyway. But now I have to click a track to see what I want to know about it, which is a step backwards in my personal workflow.
I take the point about not wanting the track headers to be expanded. I think I am in the minority because I never used anything other than 'All' for track headers, and I just resized tracks to show as much as was necessary. Being able to fit more tracks vertically is great, but if they're too short then I can't easily slip edit or fade them anyway, and that is what I spend more than half my time doing.
To be honest, if I had 2 monitors, I'd probably still prefer the Console view to be horizontal rather than vertical, so it lines up with the tracks in track view. The current setup is a good metaphor if you are familiar with working with mixing desks, but we don't compose and arrange music on a mixing desk.
I am going to try with the Console in the multidock and use the D command to quickly switch between the two, and see if I end up preferring that workflow. But I don't think it will, because the Prochannel is still not visible when I do that - the vertical nature of the console strip is that all that information is at the top, so I can't see it without scrolling. Maybe in the future when I have 2 monitors for this, it'll be workable.
With the CV in the Multidock you may want to resize it to show the full CV. Using D will toggle it open or minimized. I love the Pro Channel but it is a hog when it is displayed.
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gswitz
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 08:38:45
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@Kylotan,
I haven't read everything everyone has said, but I noticed you've just come to X3 from 8.5 and I have some comments.
Firstly, what qualifies as 'Selected' has been confused by multi-touch work going on in the DAW. Personally, I think it has made knowing what's in the inspector a bit confusing.
For example,
1. select track A
2. modify the volume envelope on Track B
In this case your eye has shifted to track B. You are thinking about track B, but the item in the track inspector is still track A. It's Track A's Pro Channel.
What your scroll wheel on your mouse controls is sometimes confusing.
For Example,
1. click the volume fader in the track inspector. Move the scroll wheel and see the fader move.
2. move the mouse to hover over the tracks in the track view. Move the scroll wheel, see the PC in the inspector scroll. (you might have expected to scroll through the tracks). What you control is impacted by where you hover as well as the lass control with the focus. Where you hover alone or last focus alone do not guarantee behavior - only the combination of the two.
The scroll wheel has gotten a lot better since X1. There used to be cases where you might accidentally impact EQ settings, but this seems to have been solved. At this point, it's uncommon (but I won't say never yet) for me to accidentally impact volume or effect setting when I mean to scroll through tracks in track view.
Obviously, if you are in Console View using multi-touch, it doesn't make sense to have the Inspector try to follow all 10 faders at once. It can only have 1 channel in it at a time. Since you can use touch on 10 channels at a time, there needs to be a new paradigm. A new way to define when the content of the inspector changes.
For you, not using touch, this is only a hassle. It gets in the way of things and seems less than intuitive. I agree.
On the other hand, as we learn how the DAW works, having touch as a built in feature is pretty awesome (if you use it). I'm hoping there will be significant forward strides in the next version of Sonar.
And just so you know, we all feel your pain. We've all been there. And we're still adapting.
Multi-Touch makes live mixing silent (no mouse clicks or key strokes). If you float the browser, you can drag FX into the PC. You can modify all kinds of things with several fingers at a time. It's just way cool.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 09:20:43
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John
With the CV in the Multidock you may want to resize it to show the full CV. Using D will toggle it open or minimized.
But if I can't see much of my Track view it's mostly useless. I work in Track View, always have, always will. If I have to make that barely an inch high to work with the ProChannel properly, I'm just not going to use the ProChannel.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 09:24:23
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gswitz
Obviously, if you are in Console View using multi-touch, it doesn't make sense to have the Inspector try to follow all 10 faders at once. It can only have 1 channel in it at a time. Since you can use touch on 10 channels at a time, there needs to be a new paradigm. A new way to define when the content of the inspector changes.
For you, not using touch, this is only a hassle. It gets in the way of things and seems less than intuitive. I agree.
On the other hand, as we learn how the DAW works, having touch as a built in feature is pretty awesome (if you use it). I'm hoping there will be significant forward strides in the next version of Sonar.
And just so you know, we all feel your pain. We've all been there. And we're still adapting.
I'm glad it's working well for you. But I'm never going to have a multi-touch interface so this just muddies the waters for my workflow. Needing the Inspector for the ProChannel in Track View is awkward, making it an effort to ensure it's following the right track is just plain difficult. Most likely, if they push things further down this road, it'll be new DAW time for me.
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gswitz
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 09:32:43
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I believe the big impacts to the mouse using community are already in place (been wrong before). There have been 2 years at least of Sonar Touch Development. X2 and X3 are both touch enabled. I would guess that if you can adapt to the changes as they stand, that you may be well positioned for the future, whether you adopt touch or not.
It would be a bummer to change to another DAW just to have to deal with that company trying to implement touch and all the lessons they'll learn. At least you've got 2 good years under the belt with Sonar. Lots of adjusting and fixing has brought things along fairly well. I use my mouse a ton btw (much more than I use touch). I use Track View all the time.
I have gotten pretty comfortable hitting D to show and hide the console view. One thing I've asked for is clip hold on the PC Clip Indicator so you can know if at any point in the track any of the plugs clip. That should be a pretty nice to have feature if it comes in X4 (here's to hoping).
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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John
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 09:38:31
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Kylotan
John
With the CV in the Multidock you may want to resize it to show the full CV. Using D will toggle it open or minimized.
But if I can't see much of my Track view it's mostly useless. I work in Track View, always have, always will. If I have to make that barely an inch high to work with the ProChannel properly, I'm just not going to use the ProChannel.
I do too. I think all Sonar users work in the TV. That is a given. BUT when you are dealing with a PC module you are not working in the TV nor if it were a regular VST or DX plugin. They all require one to focus on them to do anything with them. With the PC it is meant to hold multiple modules with a minimum of space taken. That is unlike a VST. Kontakt for example can take up the whole screen. No it is not useless at all. You think you must see everything at all times but really that is incorrect thinking. What you need is a way to see what you need to see when you need to see it. Sonar has many ways to do just that. It always has. Now its far better than it was before. It may take some time to get the hang of things but it will seem natural after you have accustomed yourself to it. And in the end some things simply are not going to work as you may wish. There is no way to see all the PCs at once without using the CV.
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 10:01:16
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That's not really the crux of the issue. Of course, when I want to tweak settings that are optional (like effects or a synth), I will need to bring up more detailed values somewhere - whether that's a floating window, a docked one, or full screen. That's unavoidable. But what is important is that I know that effect or synth is in use. Every other aspect is visible just at a glance from the track view - I can see if I have an EQ patched in (though I may not know the exact settings), I can see if the track is muted, I can see which bus it routes to, I can see what it is called, I can see if it's an audio or synth channel, I can see how it's panned, and what the output level is.
I cannot see whether there are any ProChannel modules inserted.
That requires clicking on that track and looking elsewhere. Yes, it's just one click. But it's one extra click, every time I want to see that information, for every track I want to see it for. eg. Do I have an EQ on all my rhythm guitar tracks? If they're in the FX bin, I can see that at a glance, and will guess that they're on the same settings. With ProChannel, I have to click through each one to see, or switch to Console View and scroll. Then I have to remember that in future because there's no visual cue.
What I need is a way to see, at a glance, what is inserted on a track, and on neighbouring tracks for comparison, while I am editing and playing the tracks. I can do this perfectly with the ProChannel the only significant exception.
Sure, "There is no way to see all the PCs at once without using the CV." My initial question was answered a few posts back and I accept the fact that it does not work the way I would like, and therefore I will probably just avoid the ProChannel as a result. On Sonar's part, I don't see a good reason why they don't have the option to have the small ProChannel box in Track View in the same way that the small FX box appears there. That would at least provide some visual indication that the PC is engaged for that track.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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John
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 10:17:10
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A feature request may be in order.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 10:22:55
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What I need is a way to see, at a glance, what is inserted on a track, and on neighbouring tracks for comparison, while I am editing and playing the tracks. I can do this perfectly with the ProChannel the only significant exception. It's taking a while to figure out exactly what you want......but don't give up on screensets so easily. They are very, very versatile. Does this one help?  Lots of track view. PC for each track/buss visible at the bottom (optional - could be top). Track selection can be done from the PC or track view. Those without a PC are MIDI tracks obviously. If it does I'll post up the steps on how to reproduce that. If it doesn't be even more specific and I'll have another go.
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Anderton
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 11:56:00
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First, I NEVER used Console view in 8.5. Ever. Now with X3, I use it all the time thanks to the D shortcut. I set the console just high enough so I can see the timeline and markers. If I want to see clips, I hit D. I also find things iike offset mode more convenient in CV, as well as the ability to hide the MIDI tracks easily through the synth's folder track and just deal with the audio. I guess my main question is why you need to see which ProChannel modules are in a track. For me, the PC is 99% about EQ and dynamics. So I need to adjust those on a per-track basis, which makes the inspector ideal...select, adjust, move on, forget unless re-adjustment is needed later. If it's more about taking an "inventory" of which modules are in each track, you can collapse them and make the ProChannel equivalent of a "meter bridge" along the bottom. Granted you can't see all ProChannels on all tracks at one time, but with two monitors you can see at least 10 at a time, and at least five on a laptop. Don't forget that with Quick Grouping you can collapse and open all modules of a certain type at once.  And of course the Navigator is modal, so you can stick it anywhere. Personally, I use two monitors and have one view with the Track View in all its glory and the other with Console view expanded to its fullest, and switch between them with D. To me that's the best of both worlds, and as John said, allows me "to see what you need to see when you need to see it."
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Kylotan
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Re: Any way of viewing the ProChannel in Track View?
2014/11/27 12:05:16
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FastBikerBoy
It's taking a while to figure out exactly what you want......but don't give up on screensets so easily. They are very, very versatile. Does this one help?
Closer! Now add in a couple of hundred pixels for the Navigator at the top... and make each track taller so that slip editing and fading isn't a game of hunt-the-pixel, and we're better off. (Still, you can see how ridiculous it is to need to have a separate window just for the ProChannel with everything else on the left. :) ) Also, what's your resolution? That screen looks taller than mine.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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