Helpful ReplySilent Busses Detected. Bug?

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200bpm
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2014/11/27 16:38:01 (permalink)

Silent Busses Detected. Bug?

Whenever I open my project I get this error dialog.
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Dialogs2.133.html
 
All of the tracks and busses have outputs assigned, yet according to this page it should only happen when an output is none.
 
Any ideas?  Anyway to reset the project so this doesnt happen?

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
#1
Boydie
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 17:03:25 (permalink)
Make sure you don't have any SENDS going nowhere
 
I got caught out by this one and it was a SEND I had forgotten about
#2
200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 17:06:08 (permalink)
Thanks, there was an extra bus that got put in there.

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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 18:45:06 (permalink)
Additionally, if like me, you intentionally use busses going nowhere that warning can be turned off by use of a variable WarnSilentBusses=0 
 
Put that in your Cakewalk.ini file and it won't bother you again. (Prefs-->File-->Initialisation File)
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Anderton
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 19:05:54 (permalink)
More info. First hit on Google search.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 21:05:07 (permalink)
My project keeps dropping outputs!!!
 
Audio interface stays on, but when I relaunch program a random selection of busses are out!
 
Serious bugs.  I fix, save, reload, and another set of outputs are missing.  Then when I fix them, there is no audio output, even though the interface shows audio in totalmix.
 
 

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 21:09:31 (permalink)
I know its broken because when I save and relaunch Sonar the audio will play.

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
#7
John
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 21:54:52 (permalink)
You have a system problem. It is not a bug. If it were this board would be full of the members reporting it. 

Best
John
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 21:56:42 (permalink)
Please, you're really going to HAVE to give better information. What do you mean by "dropping ouputs"? Are the outputs set from something to "none"? Are they unchecked in preferences? Are buses that used to be there not there? When you say you "fix," what do you mean? You insert new buses? Re-assign outputs? Re-do preferences?
 
And a sentence like this tells us nothing: "I know its broken because when I save and relaunch Sonar the audio will play."
 
Instead of just running to the forum whenever there's a hiccup, pause, and try to come up with a coherent description of what's happening, with the steps you take to reproduce it or fix it. Otherwise it's like going to the doctor's and saying "my heart's messed up." Well, is it beating too fast, beating too slow, arhythmic, heartburn, gas that produces a pain in the area of the heart, are you short of breath...who knows?

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#9
AT
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 22:06:40 (permalink)
What is broken?  SONAR, total mix, your computer?  You need to go through and make sure in your SONAR project there are no busses sent to nowhere.  Same w/ totalmix.  If you look at the far right of the mixer in SONAR you'll find the hardware outputs (ie., your RME).   Those might not be obvious, but you can slide it open just like the busses pan.
 
Since I"ve been using 2 interfaces I will sometimes get this w/ the master output - I then find the correct ASIO driver and everything is hunky dory.
 
Finally, if you are connected to the internet and running youtube/youporn and MS sound through the RME, SONAR sometimes doesn't connect right after all the various bit depths and sample rates that are involved.  Or at least my TC Konnekt can get disconnected from SONAR.  And if you reinstall any RME software it may revert to the main output for those computer sounds.  It did for me when I installed drivers for the new interface.  It is quite a surprise to get extra loud error beeps through my mains when I'm mixing etc.
 
@

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/27 23:15:32 (permalink)
@ you're a riot!!
 
Ok, My biggest issues with my RME giving me warnings or Sonar giving issues comes when I pop open RME DigiCheck to use it for the Spectral Analyzer or the Vector Scope or the EBU Meter. It will save and force to a particular sample rate. I use WorkSpaces to save all the instances the way I like them on the screen. Then I have different work spaces depending on the sample rate.
 
For example, I'll have Totalyzer and EBU for 48, same for 96... etc.
 
The RME Tools tend to win over Sonar when flipping the sample rate to the device. Then Sonar gives a message about whether to reset. Before I click ok, I flip the DigiCheck instances to the right rate (matching the Sonar project). Then I flip back to Sonar and it won't matter which button I click (yes or no) everything will be fine.
 
Space to restart playback and I'm good.
 
I have no troubs watching anything on the interweb while working in Sonar. For that matter, can use DigiCheck to record a song off youtube/youporn haha while mixing a separate project using Sonar without having any problems. (Of course, if there were probs I could just do it again). But the idea is there. You can record using digicheck while using Sonar and your same RME for other purposes as long as the rates align. You still have only one clock. Stopping and starting Sonar doesn't seem to have any impact on the recording you are making in DigiCheck. I sometimes even bounce tracks while capturing some other input.
 
A recent real world example was a friend from work gave me 2 90 minute cassettes and asked me to record them into the computer. I did so while mixing tracks on computer.
 
@ is right to point out that if some other program on your computer is pushing your RME to a different sample rate, that this could be your problem. For me, that thing is almost only ever DigiCheck. I have never had a problem with a web browser doing this.
 
As an aside, I almost always run at least one instance of DigiCheck while I mix in Sonar. For that matter, I've learned a lot by watching the Totalyzer while watching Netflix.
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 07:25:03 (permalink)
AT
What is broken?  SONAR, total mix, your computer?  You need to go through and make sure in your SONAR project there are no busses sent to nowhere.  Same w/ totalmix.  If you look at the far right of the mixer in SONAR you'll find the hardware outputs (ie., your RME).   Those might not be obvious, but you can slide it open just like the busses pan.
 
Since I"ve been using 2 interfaces I will sometimes get this w/ the master output - I then find the correct ASIO driver and everything is hunky dory.
 
Finally, if you are connected to the internet and running youtube/youporn and MS sound through the RME, SONAR sometimes doesn't connect right after all the various bit depths and sample rates that are involved.  Or at least my TC Konnekt can get disconnected from SONAR.  And if you reinstall any RME software it may revert to the main output for those computer sounds.  It did for me when I installed drivers for the new interface.  It is quite a surprise to get extra loud error beeps through my mains when I'm mixing etc.
 
@




There are too many oddities, too many inconsistencies when only running sonar that do not appear when running Samplitude.  System and interface have been rock solid for 4-5 years.
 
I am not going to write a dissertation every time I get a bug in Sonar.  I just throw out my experience in hopes that someone else may have experienced it and know a workaround. 
 
Its amazing to me, the group of people who do not seem to understand my explanations.  My descriptions suffice for the people who are not making apologies for the software.
 
That said, its what I'm using now, I accept that its not as solid as Samplitude as long as I can find workarounds. 

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
#12
John
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 07:45:23 (permalink)
We try to help for no pay or for anything other then simply sharing our knowledge with others so they can have a great time using Sonar. 
 
You came to us this year I and many have been here since day one doing for others. For you to see us as nothing more than apologists for CW is patently wrong.
 

How to Get Help Here

Originally Posted by John. John thank you for the wonderful post.

This is meant for new members of this forum. Welcome! 

When posting a question please incorporate this information in your post. The more information you include the better your chances of getting the help you need. 

1. SONAR version. This should include whether it is the Producer Edition or the Studio Edition. It is very important to also include what version number as well i.e. Ver 1.00 or Ver. 6.2.1. Without this information we will have to ask you what you are using. This will delay an answer to your question. 

2. Audio gear. List any and all audio cards or audio interfaces you are using. Include driver version too. 

3. MIDI gear. List all pertinent MIDI interfaces you have in your system. The brand and drivers also. Any outboard MIDI gear may be useful as well to include in your post. 

4. System specifications. Processor, memory, hard drives.The operating system with any service packs should be noted. 

5. Judgement will help you to decide just how detailed you are in giving your specs. But more information is better then not enough. 

6. What you include will of course be dictated by the type of question. 

This section is from members that have added to the 6 points above. 

From Houndawg 

Subjects like "HELP ME!!!" or "My Sonar Sucks!" (or anything all caps) will or often should go ignored by the forum. 

I spent many years as a repair/upgrade tech and tech trainer. One of the most valuable lessons I learned and taught was this: "The more accurate and detailed the description of problem, the better the chance of it getting fixed quickly and right the first time." 

From Phrauge 

Don't start a new thread in reply to a previous thread. 

Don't post the same question in several forums. 

Read the furnished materials. 


From Me 

And to add to your post above . Please try a search on the forum first. Often your problem has already been asked and answered. 

From Cryophonik 

1) If/when you solve the problem, please post your solution in the thread. Other users are likely to have the same problem at some point. I can't count how many times I've searched for and found a thread pertaining to a problem that I just encountered, but the final post in the thread is simply "nevermind. i figured it out." 

2) use your spellcheck, especially for any keywords that are pertinent to the problem. When you mispell a word, it makes it impossible for the Search function to find it when the person searching spells the word correctly. 

From Kennywtelejazz 
Excellent point , and a thanks for the help can go a long way also 

From Nick P 

1) Search the forums, especially the Home Studio forums, BEFORE posting a question. From my experience, over 90% of the questions I see on the Sonar Producer and Studio forums and so elementary as to be much more appropriate for the Home Studio forums, which, BTW are EXCELLENT sources of knowledge and information for almost all Sonar users. There are a couple of guys over there who seem to do nothing but help beginners and newbies. Highly recommended. 

4) After doing this if you still can't figure out your problem, go ahead and post to the Sonar Producer and Studio forum. 

From Songcraft 

- Don't flame the situation. Sure, we all have bad days but try and understand there are a lot of good people here who "volunteer" to help. 

Now please feel free to ask away. 


 post edited by Marketing [Cakewalk] - April 25, 08 9:54 AM
 
The above was posted a long time ago.  I think its still relevant today.
 
 
 

Best
John
#13
200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 09:07:44 (permalink)
I dont give any extra respect, consideration, or fealty to anyone based on post count or "reputation"; either help or don't help.  People who play act as internet police have serious problems.  This place is no more yours than it is mine because I paid for the software just like you.  Don't try to enforce internet hygeine, syntax, spelling, or comprehension.  Don't try to serve as informal PR for Cakewalk, making it seem like bugs are user error or lack of understanding.   Either help or don't help, the rest of the BS do on your own time.
 
 
 
 
 

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
#14
200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 09:11:41 (permalink)
Here is a screenshot of my project.  The yellow circled busses keep disappearing to "none".  Even once I put them back to what they should be, the project will not play audio until I close and reopen sonar.
 
I am able to recreate this bug by closing this project (when its working), creating a new empty project, then reopening this project.  I get the error dialog saying the busses are missing.  I reset them but sonar won't play audio (at least out the bus that was reset) until I close sonar and reopen the project.
 
****ed sonar forum still won't let me attach image.  YOu will have to use your imagination.
 

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 09:54:22 (permalink)
PM me the link and I'll replace this post with your image.
 
When you describe a new project and opening your old project is a method to replicate the issue, are both projects at the same sample rate?
 
We all have bad days, but being kind and respectful to the forum members and Cakewalk staff as well is pretty much a requirement.  While you are just in the very beginnings of building your reputation, many have been active contributing members for decades and have indeed built considerable reputations. (Who is that Craig Anderton anyway?)
 
I recognize that the characters and personalities of the forum members are not known to you and that you are frustrated and just seeking help. Everyone posting on your threads is trying to help you. Just so you know, there are hundreds more reading and choosing when to chime in. If they feel they could help you more, they will. Often times when the more expert aren't chiming in it's because they feel you are getting adequate help from the members who are helping you.
 
IMHO, it looks like props are to Boydie who answered you on the first reply.
 
And the talent on this thread! Dude, you've got the right people trying to help you.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/11/28 11:24:27

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 10:16:25 (permalink)
I have been having mostly bad days since buying Sonar X3.  Its pretty and a great UI, but I'm starting to reevaluate if its suitable for my needs based on the bugs and inconsistencies.  Next I am going to downgrade my RME UFX drivers to a prior version to see if that helps any.  Seriously, this machine has been rock solid, stable and done everything I asked until I started using Sonar.
 
Here is a video of the Sonar X3 bus drop bug.  This has been a very stable machine for the past 4-5 years, primarily used with Samplitude Pro 11 (no bugs).   
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO1EqHxQrNY

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 10:25:01 (permalink)
So you have some basic problems.

The first project is at 96 K and the second at 44.1 K. Both projects are at 16 bit. This is visible on the control bar at the bottom of the screen (I keep mine there too, nice choice).
 
I suggest you go into preferences and change the File settings to Record at 24 bit.
 
I believe you are not using the ASIO Audio Drivers. That is why Sonar is not dynamically switching back from 44.1 to 96. Please, check preferences driver mode. What is it set to?

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 10:53:42 (permalink)
I am using ASIO.  
 
In the audio devices menu, project is set to 24bits but it is greyed out.  I have no idea why it is at 16 in this project or why I cant change it.  There is nothing in the UFX ASIO menu that locks the bit rate.  
 
The default was set to 44.1, but I changed it to 96.  Weird stuff going on here...
 
 

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 10:59:28 (permalink)
See this help file.
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=4&help=AudioPerformance.06.html
 
Your UFX will ALWAYS work at 24 bit. The question is how many bits will Sonar write when creating the files. The UFX doesn't have a 16 bit setting.
 
Do me a favor, try setting default project setting to 96 K and re-do your test where you create a a new project and switch back. I'm not at home today, so I can't re-execute your test, but I all the time switch between projects of differing sample rates without issue. I will try to replicate when I'm back home.
 
Do you have the Clock set to the device?

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#20
200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:06:20 (permalink)
By changing the default to 24/96 I can switch between projects without this problem.  So I guess the bug here is inability to switch between different rates without dropping outputs??  
 
It turns out those busses were not the only problem, other channels were reset to different inputs without warning or fanfare.
 

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
#21
John
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:09:08 (permalink)
You need to set the bit depth in two places in Sonar. First is Driver settings under audio. The second is in Audio Data under File.
 
 

Best
John
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:24:21 (permalink)
200bpm
By changing the default to 24/96 I can switch between projects without this problem.  So I guess the bug here is inability to switch between different rates without dropping outputs??  



Yes, I think that the problem is related to the control of your interface and the switching of it from one sample rate to another. Something is blocking the switch between the Sample Rates. On my computer, in the system tray at the bottom right, there is an RME Driver Icon you can open to see what RME reports the current Sample Rate to be. Be warned, having this open may block Sonar from changing the rate. This is what I was describing with RME DigiCheck (which you should download if you haven't).
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads.php?page=content/downloads/en_downloads_driver&subpage=content/downloads/en_downloads_digicheck
 
So, something is blocking Sonar for making the switch on your computer. I'm not positive what it is. When Sonar detects that there is no ASIO Interface matching the project, it is clearing your stuff out. That's your prob. So, what is blocking Sonar from altering it. That's why I kept asking about ASIO. I was wondering if a wrong driver setting might block it. Having another sound program open locking the device would do it too. That was what @ was trying to tell you.
 
Do you follow the problem? Ask if you are confused. It's a confusing concept. Basically, at one moment, Sonar recognizes a device at 96 it can use, and then at the next moment it doesn't.
 
Again, I'm travelling and have only Linux with me. When I'm home I'll test with Sonar. It's possible that the 44.1 project you open somehow isn't all the way closed or for some reason hasn't released your device.
 
Here's another thing to try (something I might do),
1. Open your 96 Proj. - don't close it
2. Create your 44.1 Proj. - don't close it
3. (Without closing either project) Alt+W and choose to switch between the projects. Switch back
 
How does that work? Watch your Device. Is it smoothly changing between 96 and 44.1?
 
I'm not positive if you will accidentally lock your device by having that RME Driver window open from the system tray or not. You'll have to try it.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:25:50 (permalink)
200bpm
****ed sonar forum still won't let me attach image.  YOu will have to use your imagination.



Use www.imgur.com. It's not difficult. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:32:28 (permalink)
When Sonar doesn't see an interface at the right Sample Rate and it cannot alter the rate to the correct rate, it basically behaves similarly to how it behaves when the interface is off.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:32:53 (permalink)
200bpm
I dont give any extra respect, consideration, or fealty to anyone based on post count or "reputation"; either help or don't help.

 
People can't help without a coherent description of the problem. The definition for "dropping outputs" exists only in your lexicon; the information you have provided in the last few posts should have been in the first post as it defines what you mean by "dropping outputs." This is not about correcting syntax or spelling, but transfer of useful information in the quest to find a solution.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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gswitz
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:48:39 (permalink)
BTW, you mentioned rolling back your RME Driver. I'm on the latest RME USB Driver and DigiCheck on all the computers I use with my UCX - Except for Linux where I have to use it in CC mode.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#27
mettelus
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:49:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/11/28 11:46:03
I can only speak for my interface, but it is probably similar. It is highly recommended for my interface to close any applications in use prior to any sampling adjustments (done via the ASIO panel). However, I tend to blow this off all the time, as my drivers will handshake with X3 and adjust. At times, this will cause the audio engine to drop out (rare) which I simply re-enable in the control bar (I noticed yours dropped out too). As I am not sure of the sampling rate in a project, I am grateful for this handshaking (which can be undermined if multiple applications are accessing the interface, especially Windows). It seems that your interface appears as a different output to X3 with different sampling rates (not sure here), so when the sample rates do not match it is giving you that warning (i.e. X3 expects to be talking to a 16/96 interface and isn't seeing one).
 
Ideally, applications should be closed, interface adjusted, and then X3 re-opened. The default for new projects can be specified in preferences within X3 (I would set these for what you have traditionally worked in, and be sure the interface is set there via its GUI as well). If you are running ASIO mode, you can only access buffers within X3 via the "ASIO panel" button, which launches the interface GUI.
 
I hope this helps.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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200bpm
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:51:18 (permalink)
Craig,
In the first post, I linked exactly the problem I was having.  You're trying to seem smart but failed at basic reading comprehension.

i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
#29
mettelus
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Re: Silent Busses Detected. Bug? 2014/11/28 11:54:04 (permalink)
Please be considerate of others and take feedback constructively. People taking the time to try to help (even if they fail) is a privilege and not a right.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#30
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