mwall
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Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
I'm thinking of upgrading from X2 to X3 today, but can someone tell me if the envelope problems are fixed in this lateset version. For the past several version, I have had the issue where clip envelopes stay visible when turned off; or when mixing down, some clip envelopes won't be applied; or envelopes will sometime lock to where you can't adjust them; or trying to adjust an envelope on one clip actually moves an envelope on a different clip ... and other related problems. This is really a terrible flaw that greatly hinders workflow. This problem has existed on upgrades over other version, as well as brand new clean installs.
Would like to know if this has been fixed before purchasing the upgrade. Thanks.
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scook
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 16:05:22
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Anderton
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 16:17:41
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mwall
I'm thinking of upgrading from X2 to X3 today, but can someone tell me if the envelope problems are fixed in this lateset version. For the past several version, I have had the issue where clip envelopes stay visible when turned off; or when mixing down, some clip envelopes won't be applied; or envelopes will sometime lock to where you can't adjust them; or trying to adjust an envelope on one clip actually moves an envelope on a different clip ... and other related problems. This is really a terrible flaw that greatly hinders workflow. This problem has existed on upgrades over other version, as well as brand new clean installs.
Would like to know if this has been fixed before purchasing the upgrade. Thanks.
The simplest way to find out is to download the trial version and apply the kind of workflow you use. When you say "envelopes stay visible when turned off," if you mean turned off as in changing the Edit filter to something other than a clip automation-related function, a thin line will remain to indicate Clip Gain is active. This has not changed with X3 (nor would I want it to, but YMMV). The only way to remove any reference to a clip envelope is to right-click on the envelope and delete it. As to the other issues I can't speak to them but some tools work more smoothly than others. If I want to move an envelope inside a clip, I use the Move tool. I also use it to double-click to create nodes, and the drawing tool more for freehand and periodic waveforms. I also drag in the timeline a lot to select nodes, as that allows selecting bits of envelopes across different clips. I'm also careful to make sure I didn't have multiple clips selected in Clips before switching over to a Clip Envelope option. Can't say I've encountered clip envelopes ever not being active in a mix, unless they were "overruled" by an automation envelope. If this problem happens rarely, you can always bounce to clip and render the clip envelope. Don't forget that with the Smart Tool, if you ctrl+click within a clip you can drag up or down to change the entire envelope within the clip without having to change the Edit Filter.
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mwall
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 17:42:16
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Thanks for the responses. That would makes sense that there would be a thinner clip envelope present to show that one is active, but what I'm talking about is no change in the appearance of the clip envelope whether I have "clip" or "gain" selected. Sometimes switching from "clip" back to "gain" doesn't allow me to edit the gain envelope, but if I enable the "pan" envelope and then switch back to "gain," I can edit the gain envelope. It's really annoying. And this doesn't happen all the time, but very frequently, so downloading the trial might not reveal that problem in the little bit of time I will have to play with it. Also, it won't reveal the problem of the clip envelopes not rendering in an export to to a .wav file, as I assume you can't export a file in the trial version? Based on the responses I have received, and lack of responses that share in my problem, I'm assuming mine is a rather isolated situation. Could a computer system or certain video card cause such problem?
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John
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 17:58:47
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A video card could, Mark.
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scook
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 18:00:46
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The trial is fully functional for a limited time. While I have not used a trial version, fully functional to me means it would export a file during the fully function time period. I believe it works a lot like using the full version of SONAR and not register it.
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Anderton
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 18:05:19
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mwall
Thanks for the responses. That would makes sense that there would be a thinner clip envelope present to show that one is active, but what I'm talking about is no change in the appearance of the clip envelope whether I have "clip" or "gain" selected. Are you taking about layers or just clips? I have noticed funky graphics behavior with Take Lanes, but not when working with clips themselves. Sometimes switching from "clip" back to "gain" doesn't allow me to edit the gain envelope, but if I enable the "pan" envelope and then switch back to "gain," I can edit the gain envelope. It's really annoying. I do seem to recall something similar with X2...IIRC, I'd save the file and re-open it, and that would make things right again. And this doesn't happen all the time, but very frequently, so downloading the trial might not reveal that problem in the little bit of time I will have to play with it. Also, it won't reveal the problem of the clip envelopes not rendering in an export to to a .wav file, as I assume you can't export a file in the trial version? The trial is full function for 30 days. Cakewalk wants you to become hooked.  Based on the responses I have received, and lack of responses that share in my problem, I'm assuming mine is a rather isolated situation. Could a computer system or certain video card cause such problem?
I highly doubt it, but I've been sandbagged more than once by video-related driver problems so I never rule anything out. The biggest problem I've had with clip automation is there are apparently several different ways to do the same thing, but one option will be more reliable than another. (Actually you've suggested a great topic for my Sound on Sound column - "Best Practices with Clip Envelopes.") If you get the trial and encounter the same problems, if possible it would be tremendously helpful if you could provide steps to reproduce any issues. I know that's not always easy but often it's what gets bugs fixed.
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mwall
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Re: Upgrade question: Are clip envelopes fixed in X3?
2014/11/30 18:35:15
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I actually was in email tech support with Sonar over this issue in a previous version (either 7 or 8, I think), but the support stalled. They couldn't figure it out, basically. I've had the same problem with X2, which is why I asked the question, could it be my system? After looking at all the features of X3, I think think I'll opt for the upgrade anyway at $59 since it ends today. The new comping system and Melodyne would probably be worth that alone. I just hope I don't have the same clip envelope problem.
I can give you the steps I take now. I do a recording with multiple takes. I open the track lanes and do my comping (the long, tedious way). Then I select individual clips that need gain adjustments, changing the mode for the given lane from "clip" to "envelope/gain." I make the adjustment to the clip and then switch the mode back to "clip" but the envelope graphic stays the same. I can't edit it because I'm in clip mode now, but it looks exactly the same as in "gain" mode. Sometimes, I'll want to adjust that clip again and so I switch back to "gain" mode, but it won't let me make adjustments (or perhaps it's adjusting a different clip somewhere else without me knowing, which has also happened before). So, I have to switch to "pan" mode and then back to "gain" modes, and I'm usually able to edit again. But then the Pan envelope is still there and in the way sometimes. Then after all of that, sometimes the clip envelopes don't manifest in the exported file, so I have to go back in and do an overall track gain adjustment to make the gain work like I want it to.
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