How Did They Mic the old 50's bands?

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Rimshot
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2014/12/05 20:33:29 (permalink)

How Did They Mic the old 50's bands?

Anyone know how they recorded 50's groups like these cuts from Elvis on cuts where you can't see the mics?
I like the mix between drums and bass.  Maybe an RCA ribbon mic.
There was so much energy with these old recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJe9duEs7Y
 
Edit:  Here is the same clip as above but is in sync:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdDIKONSDUM
 
Here is a better recording of his early stuff:0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHdM_pmq_ps
 
 
post edited by Rimshot - 2014/12/06 20:46:50

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    wst3
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 14:42:38 (permalink)
    The 50's might be a tad too broad a range in this case, the recording industry was growing, and driving changes (improvements) in technology at a rapid pace.
     
    Ribbon microphones did rule the roost, at least in the USA.
     
    Stereo recording came about somewhere in the mid 1950s, prior to that it was all mono, and some studios would mix several microphones together to create that mono track - but mixers were pretty rare too.
     
    The studios and control rooms were pretty crude by today's standards as well, well, that's not entirely fair, some of the sound stages of that era were really quite remarkable, but the smaller studios were not.

    With all of that seemingly working against them they still made great recordings!!
     
    Many of the recordings from the first half of the decade were made with a single ribbon microphone direct to disc, which in this case was wax master<G>. As the decade wore on they did start using more microphones, and they did start to record to stereo (actually left, center, and right).
     
    You might want to do some surfing for information about Harry Olson, Bing Crosby and Les Paul, all of whom had quite a bit to do with early advances in recording, and happened to be smart enough to capture some of that history.

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    Rain
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 15:53:14 (permalink)
    That rehearsal cut of Rip It Up does sound quite good indeed. :)
     
    You know, to this day, one of my favorite sounding album is Elvis' Christmas record. The whole thing sounds so simple and so beautiful. That snare drum after the first vocal harmonies in Santa Claus is Back in Town - man...

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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 16:35:56 (permalink)
    It's watching Elvis sing but there no apparent mic by him. So I think they had a mic in front and the band played soft enough so that the vocals would come through.

    I will check out that tune Rain.

    Rimshot 

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    AT
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 17:22:38 (permalink)
    Milli vanilli

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    Rain
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 18:52:27 (permalink)

     
    That's Christmas w/ an attitude! :P

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    quantumeffect
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 19:01:39 (permalink)
    I don't think the audio and video in the top video from the television show are sync'ed correctly.  I think I hear the clapping on 2 and 4 but see it on 1 and 3.  Also, there are two short snare rolls fairly early on in the song (at around 0:25), the first one is visually almost in time but the second one is off. 

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    optimus
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 20:11:32 (permalink)
    At first I thought that TV clip was perhaps mimed, as things are slightly out of sync. However at the end when Elvis starts to speak, you can hear the buzz of the amplifiers come through.
     
    So however it was done it was pretty good. Maybe the song was played live along with the record, but the audio from the record was sent to air, not the live performance. Then perhaps not.
    Just watched the video again and there is a part where the vocal fades a bit and then returns. Who Knows...

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    Karyn
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 20:26:29 (permalink)
    I'd say it was totally mimed, there is accurate lip sync when he talks at the end, but the rest of the time it is clearly out, and the band is a whole beat out most of the time.  The noise you hear is just studio noise, not the guitar amps.
     
    Compare to this one below.  You hear the thump as he grabs hold of the mic, and the bass player in the background is in perfect time...


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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 20:50:56 (permalink)
    Rain

     
    That's Christmas w/ an attitude! :P


    That's what I'm talkin' about!  

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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 20:52:29 (permalink)
    Karyn
    I'd say it was totally mimed, there is accurate lip sync when he talks at the end, but the rest of the time it is clearly out, and the band is a whole beat out most of the time.  The noise you hear is just studio noise, not the guitar amps.
     
    Compare to this one below.  You hear the thump as he grabs hold of the mic, and the bass player in the background is in perfect time...



    Right on Karyn.  Have you every seen/heard a clip where he is live but with no vocal mic?

    Rimshot 

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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 20:57:13 (permalink)
    quantumeffect
    I don't think the audio and video in the top video from the television show are sync'ed correctly.  I think I hear the clapping on 2 and 4 but see it on 1 and 3.  Also, there are two short snare rolls fairly early on in the song (at around 0:25), the first one is visually almost in time but the second one is off. 




    I found a video clip of the same event that is in sync and just updated my first post with it.

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    Karyn
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 21:02:05 (permalink)
    At short notice I can't answer that one.  I wasn't born when these clips were recorded and I never liked Elvis once I got into music...   so shoot me.
     
    All I know are the techniques used in film/tv studios in those days mainly involved ribbon mikes mounted high at 45 degrees to make use of the fig 8 pattern for external noise rejection, but they certainly weren't sensitive enough to pick out a single voice standing infront of a drum kit and guitar amp.

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    Karyn
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 21:08:17 (permalink)
    ok,  I take back what I said about miming,  but when he goes into Hound Dog his voice is lost almost entirely...
     
     
    Incidentally, I spotted a mic under the piano.
     

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    quantumeffect
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/06 22:13:53 (permalink)
    This photo looks like it might be from the Elvis stage at the Ed Sullivan Theater for that show.  Elvis has the same jacket on and they are CBS curtains.  The stage is up much higher than the audience and the mic looks like it is about or above face level for Elvis.
     


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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 11:56:01 (permalink)
    Great pic Dave.  Where did you find that one?  Maybe they had a few of these hanging down but the mix sounds almost like one mic.  

    Rimshot 

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    bitflipper
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 11:59:19 (permalink)
    The common element during that era was that recordings were just that - recordings, meaning they documented a live event.
     
    You got the sound you wanted by arranging the band and the microphones and then you hit Record. There may have been some live mixing, such as bringing up a lead instrument for a solo, but for the most part it was all about getting a good sound/balance first and then trying to document it as accurately as the technology would allow.
     
    Today, we have a tendency to hurry through the initial stages. Bands no longer play tunes live for months or years before taking them into the studio. Most sessions I've been in have been 50% rehearsal and 50% recording. You're just happy to get a take without too many flubs, knowing you can fix pretty much anything later.
     
    That, I think, is why many older recordings have an energy that's hard to achieve with our modern, over-produced, microscopically-edited fakery.


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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 12:12:07 (permalink)
    I agree bit about the lack of rehearsal these days.  I just watch the documentary on "The Basement Tapes" and was impressed at how hard those great artists worked in a short amount of time to write and put together those songs.
    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/stream-the-new-basement-tapes-featuring-elvis-costello-and-jim-james-20141105
     
    Not all of us are that talented but I was impressed at the energy they put into it all.  Relating back to Elvis or groups like his, when you consider the song, lyrics, singing, playing, and arrangment for playing their songs live back in that day, there really was a huge amount of talent coming from the artists compared to the audio/studio production.  That is what I like most about the old stuff.  

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    quantumeffect
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 12:15:36 (permalink)
    I just did a search that included ... Ed Sullivan, Sound Stage , Elvis ... and then carefully waded through all the search result images (I was interested myself).
     
    There were a number photos from other Ed Sullivan Show performances that showed an overheard mic.  This was the only one I found that (I think) was associated with the performance that Rimshot was asking about and showed any sort of mic placement.

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 13:54:42 (permalink)
    Here is an article that might help...recording Ricky Nelson in the 50's. http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/inside_the_techniques_used_to_record_rick_nelson/
     
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    Rimshot
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 15:42:12 (permalink)
    Great article Ben!  Much thanks for that.  It was all so simple but yet complecated when the end product had to sound good after so many bounces!  

    Rimshot 

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    spacealf
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 16:23:55 (permalink)
    Yep, probably by the '60's the sound was wrecked in a way, with more infatuation with tampering by then popular groups -Beatles, Kinks, Yardbirds, others.
     
    Don't forget the  Ricky Nelson website, where you can hear a song when getting browsing to it.
    http://www.rickynelson.com/
    (click on link)
    Now, it is just mediocre home consumer equipment anyone can buy, not the simple type recordings of yesteryear.

     

     
     
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    bitflipper
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 16:40:57 (permalink)
    Thanks, Ben, that was a great read. Leon Russell played on everything back then!
     
    Interesting that much of that information came from album liner notes, which includes tidbits such as the make and model of the disk cutter and the tape speed. I miss liner notes.
     
     


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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/07 19:43:55 (permalink)
    Glad my superfluous research skills have assisted lol
     
    Ben

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    spacealf
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/08 17:42:59 (permalink)
    And all those old Rwicky's songs were wradio wready like other songs from that era.
     

     
     
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    soens
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    Re: How Did They Mic the old 50's bands? 2014/12/26 00:08:50 (permalink)
    quantumeffect
    There were a number photos from other Ed Sullivan Show performances that showed an overheard mic.  This was the only one I found that (I think) was associated with the performance that Rimshot was asking about and showed any sort of mic placement.



    Overhead mics were and still are standard TV studio practice. Occasionally you saw floor mics when filming music but overhead booms were used so people on stage could move around unhampered, the view wasn't cluttered and more sound could be picked up with fewer mics. Some recording studios used them too. Johnny Carson's desk mic was just for show ya know.
     
    And the reason they sounded so good might have something to do with using one or two mics that, by today's prices, run in the $15,000 and up category. Also, anything you are hearing today is almost assuredly a digital remake/remaster of the original. To hear the true sound quality of the original record, get it out and play it on a real record player.
    post edited by soens - 2014/12/26 00:27:50
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