jvanbeek
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2012/05/19 13:06:01
- Status: offline
Quantize question
I am using Sonar X3 Producer ( X3e build 352 ) and have a question concerning the Quantize function. I am recording a piano part, but not really being a piano player, I've decided to record it in an unusual way. There are two parts, so I record them individually onto two separate tracks. When I play them back they sound a little off, timing wise. I decided to Quantize the tracks, but that doesn't seem to work. I've quantized two different ways. One was by adding the Quantize effect to the effects bin and the other was applying the Quantize process to the selected clip. I've also played with different resolutions from 1/4 note to 1/32 note, but it still sounds off. Has anyone experienced this behavior before? Thank you for your time.
|
quantumeffect
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2771
- Joined: 2007/07/22 21:29:42
- Location: Minnesota
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 18:25:33
(permalink)
I am still in 8.5 and only quantize in audiosnap so this may not help but … In audiosnap you have to look at where each transient marker is assigned on the waveform and make sure it makes sense. Personally, I go in and look at every transient maker to make sure it corresponds to some rhythmic feature of the waveform. The resolution you choose should be based on how the transient markers are assigned. For example, if you have a transient marker sitting on the waveform where you are feeling each quarter note and your playing is solid and close to the click, then when you set the resolution to a quarter note and quantize it should quantize correctly. On the other hand there are many scenarios I can envision where the resolution setting in conjunction with how carefully the transient markers are place and where you consistently place them (e.g., on every quarter note or on every eighth note) will negatively affect the quantization result. Say for example you placed transient markers on every quarter note but used eighth note resolution, if your playing was a little sloppy wrt to the click, then the quarter note transient markers may occasionally be forced to nearby eighth notes that lie between quarter notes. So, in my opinion, the bottom line is that quantizing (at least in 8.5 using audiosnap) is not a magic wand. You need to go in and make sure all of your transient markers are where they need to be and carefully choose your resolution based on how the markers are assigned.
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 18:25:34
(permalink)
Did you record to a click track or metronome? In other words, was the tempo constant?
|
jvanbeek
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2012/05/19 13:06:01
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 18:36:47
(permalink)
Dave --- Thank you for the suggestion. I will try this. Craig --- I recorded with an audible metronome. Thank you both for responding.
|
johnnyV
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2677
- Joined: 2010/02/22 11:46:33
- Location: Here, in my chair
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 20:35:42
(permalink)
Using the quantize feature takes some practice and a bit of musical knowledge doesn't hurt either. Example, you need to know the difference in a Triplet value and standard values. Triplet is swing, most blues songs or shuffles use it. Make sure there is no midi latency by passing all effects bins helps. There should be no audible delay between striking a note and hearing it. Play and record your part best you can to the metronome. The best way to use quantize is to see what happens after you apply the process. Open the midi track in Piano roll and see how your notes line up with the grid. Find a spot that's got the busiest bunch of notes and make a call on the smallest note value. Now select all* and apply for example, 1/16 ( or 1/16 Triplet) quantize. The notes should not have to jump too far. Now listen to it. There might be still a few notes that were played worse than others that need to be manually moved this is normal. You can correct timing and pitch as you scroll through the song. But always fix the mistakes in the midi track before you play any more. That way your playing along with good timing and not adding sloppy to sloppy. Quantize a process you apply, it is not an effect you put in a bin, that's a new one to me :> *select all = easy way is either Ctrl A or drag the mouse over all the notes on the keyboard GUI.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 22:25:06
(permalink)
I think an important aspect of quantizing is not setting it to maximum strength.Try 75% or so, it will "nudge" your notes into correctness without creating a robot. True story: I know a really excellent piano player named Spencer Brewer, he's charted a bunch. Anyway, I had one of the first sequencers on a Commodore-64 and he came to my studio to check it out. He played, and he sounded great. But when we looked at it on the screen, he said "Wow, my timing is terrible." So we quantized it...and found out that HIS timing was great. We also found out that computers don't know much about timing
|
rcrees
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 392
- Joined: 2005/04/28 10:36:01
- Location: New York City
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 22:34:47
(permalink)
jvanbeek Craig --- I recorded with an audible metronome.
SONAR's metronome, right...?
http://www.rcreesmusic.com Dell XPS 8300, Intel Core i7, 8gigs ram, AMD Radeon 6670, Two SATA II 500gig hard drives, one 250gig external USB drive, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, M-Audio Keystation 61es, Windows 7 Home Premium, SONAR X3 Producer, many sample libraries including EastWest PLAYx64 Gold Complete, RA, Stormdrum and Choirs
|
johnnyV
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2677
- Joined: 2010/02/22 11:46:33
- Location: Here, in my chair
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/06 22:38:46
(permalink)
I gave 16th as an example for a none keyboard player type dude like me... I actually find my drum tracks played on the DXT are so close as to not need quantizing. I manually move the odd note I don't like the "looks" of. My snare hits are all just ahead of the beat which is exactly what I like. Kick needs to be perfect. But my keyboard parts are very basic and I don't think I've ever gone beyond a 16th note in speed. For a real keyboard player it is best to not ruin it with quantizing. If it sounds good, it is good. I'll agree that quantizing is a tool that needs to be used with musical taste in mind, not just applied verbatim. It all started in 1984? It's old school to me anyhow.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
|
MondoArt
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 226
- Joined: 2011/11/29 18:51:10
- Location: Toronto
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/23 14:34:05
(permalink)
I usually run quantize (the plug-in, not the process, so it's not destructive) with about 80% window, 80% amount, sometimes less, sometimes more. It depends on the song and material and feel you want. If you're doing EDM or something, a tighter quantization is a trait of that style. Sometimes it's just a matter of nudging a note here or there manually and leaving the quantize off. And yes, make sure you're using Sonar's metronome.... edit: a related aside about timing, I find that if I'm playing with other people with a bit of practice, our collective timing is pretty good. But if I'm playing in parts on my keyboard one at a time: bass piano, drums, strings, synths, etc, then quantize is useful to get things in sync that otherwise would have been fine if I had my studio full of players where we could all perform together.
Neel Songwriter/Producer neelmodi.com Sonar Platinum | Intel i5 | Windows 10 Home | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 | Akai Advance 61 | NI Komplete 10
|
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3325
- Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
- Status: offline
Re: Quantize question
2014/12/24 00:03:02
(permalink)
To go along with JohnnyV, I quantize almost everything because I am OCD about music; however, I select specific regions and sometimes deselect notes within a region. For example, I may select a section that is mostly 8th notes, but deselect notes that are grace notes, triplets, etc. before I apply quantize. You really do have to be really familiar with the various nuances of rhythm to quantize a piano part. A straight-8th synth track is easier. Bass and drums are easier. Also, I agree that swing is tricky and Sonar does not handle it right. Most people write swimg as 4/4 but it is really 12/8. And while Sonar will quantize triplet-8ths correctly, it does NOT notate them correctly on the score (staff) when they are playing swing or two-step rhythms.
Konrad Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/ Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka. Rokit 6s.
|