Helpful Reply[Solved] Audible Difference On Imported Audio

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FidelityMusic
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2014/12/07 14:10:43 (permalink)

[Solved] Audible Difference On Imported Audio

I have a simple pad sound that sounds noticeably different upon being imported into Sonar. The sound is fine in FL before exporting, sounds fine in FL after exporting, and also plays fine in WMP, but in Sonar it sounds all screwed up. I can't even explain what's going on, I'd describe it as sounding like a glitch/reverse or a very subtle pump. Maybe you guys can help explain this and help me fix it.
 
I've provided a short sample of the pad exported from FL, then the pad imported and exported from Sonar. Both were exported dry at 32-bit.
 
FL Studio Export: https://instaud.io/410
 
Sonar X3 Export: https://instaud.io/411
#1
Muzock
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 15:09:19 (permalink)
Your FL sound louder here and there is no glitch/reverse or a very subtle pump in the Sonar version but it sound a little bit quieter...I have listen  a few times before posting...

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slartabartfast
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 15:37:24 (permalink)
Sorry, I have a tin ear, but I could not say that one is all screwed up relative to the other.
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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 15:42:03 (permalink)
Here's a visual example of what I'm hearing. You can clearly see that Sonar is doing something to the audio. The one to the left is the export from Sonar, the one on the right is the export from FL Studio.
 

 
 
 
 

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 15:45:52 (permalink)
More info please on export...
 
Dithering/bit depth/sample rates?
You selected all the tracks upon export?
 
Thanks...

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 15:55:07 (permalink)
FidelityMusic
FL Studio Export: https://instaud.io/410
Sonar X3 Export: https://instaud.io/411



I hear audio glitches at 3s and 7s in the Sonar X3 export sample. Now that I've listened to the samples, I think I can see the glitches in the sonogram (or whatever that is called) too.
 
Definitely something going on.
 
I'd say something has happened during the transfer from FL to Sonar, either FL export or Sonar import.
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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 15:55:37 (permalink)
The export isn't the issue, as far as I know at least. The audible issues are present the moment I import the file into Sonar. The exported file from FL plays perfectly fine in Windows Media Player, FL Studio itself, and the Chrome Browser, but the moment I put it into Sonar it sounds just as it does on the Sonar export. So something in Sonar is changing the audio. The export from Sonar just proves what I was hearing is in fact there.
 
If I'm wrong and it matters, FL's export settings:
 
Dithering: None
Bit Depth: 32-bit float
Sample Rate: 44100Hz.
 
 

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:03:40 (permalink)
I downloaded both and loaded them into separate tracks in SONAR. I heard the issue in the SONAR file, there are some little ticks.
 
However, I then exported the FL Pad file from SONAR and imported it back into SONAR, replacing the SONAR file of yours I downloaded. I put each on its own track, and flipped the phase on one of them. Setting identical levels nulled them completely, so the FL file that was exported from SONAR and then imported back into SONAR is exactly the same as the FL pad file I downloaded.
 
So, there's nothing inherently wrong with SONAR's import/export process. The problem lies in a setting somewhere or in something else entirely.
 
 
 

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:09:24 (permalink)
Sorry my bad I misread.  Try importing in a sinewave, and check your master bus.

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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:09:54 (permalink)
Well on my end the issue is only present in Sonar, and being that I'm not too familiar with Sonar I'd appreciate any suggestions. What settings in Sonar could possibly cause these issues? Anything of interest regarding this problem I should look over?

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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:17:57 (permalink)
Here's a Sine Wave exported from FL, plays perfectly fine as did the other file. Upon importing it into Sonar on a Blank Project it changes the audio.
 
Sine Wave: https://instaud.io/417
Sonar Sine Wave: https://instaud.io/418

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mettelus
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:25:37 (permalink)
I am on my phone so can only read this. I did notice your FL export is 32 bit float, so not sure if this is an issue with the import. Does this also occur if you export a 24 bit file from FL?

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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:30:14 (permalink)
mettelus
I am on my phone so can only read this. I did notice your FL export is 32 bit float, so not sure if this is an issue with the import. Does this also occur if you export a 24 bit file from FL?



Just tried and Sonar does the same thing to a 24 bit file.

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:41:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FidelityMusic 2014/12/07 16:53:55
I think I found the issue. When I bring the FL Pad into SONAR, it's converted into a groove clip (loop). That means SONAR thinks it's either a REX file or Acidized file. I don't know what format FL Studio uses. When I bring in your exported SONAR file, it's not looped and apparently has no looping metadata. With a loop containing metadata, if SONAR's tempo isn't exactly the same as the FL project, then you'll hear the kind of artifacts you describe.
 
To diagnose further, import the FL Pad into SONAR. Then click on the clip after you import it and type Ctrl+L to unloop it; I'm pretty sure the artifacts will go away.
 
Note that when you export a loop from SONAR, it will always export as a WAV file, without any looping metadata. To export a loop from SONAR, open it in the Loop Construction window that adds the metadata, then choose Clip > Save Loop from the Loop Construction window.
 
In any event, this problem has nothing to do with the accuracy of SONAR's import/export function given that I could null the original file with the exported/imported version. However, I unlooped the FL file first so it was a normal WAV file prior to exporting and re-importing. You need to look at how looping functions are handled in FL export, how they are handled once SONAR receives the file, and if there's anything you need to do in SONAR to accommodate the file.
 
My best guess pending further data is you exported the loop at one tempo, but imported into SONAR set to a slightly different tempo.
 

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:52:55 (permalink)
I just pulled the FL file into SONAR and also noticed that it is a groove clip. Without the exact tempo of this file,  "bouncing to clip(s)" will modify the file enough that I cannot phase test it in Audition.
 
I have never used FL, so not sure what the export dialog looks like; but either a generic wav file (or Broadcast wav) is preferred, especially when pulling into another program.
 
To Craig's point... I imported it into SONAR with a tempo of 120 (default), so the file was massively different than the original. (8.000 seconds versus the 11.048 second original (FL clip)).

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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 16:56:23 (permalink)
You're right. I was tracking out my FL Studio files with the "Save Acidized" option checked, which saved the wav file with Sony Acid meta-data. Now I know not to have that option checked. I didn't even notice that all of the files I imported into Sonar were Groove Clips.
 
Thank you for figuring this out, I thought I was going crazy hearing things at first. Hopefully this helps anyone else that has this issue in the future.

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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 17:09:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FidelityMusic 2014/12/07 17:11:41
BTW if you're into Acidized files, SONAR has really nice editing capabilities and construction capabitilities...one of its unique features. I think Acid is the only other program that lets you get creative with acidized files.

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FidelityMusic
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Re: Audible Difference On Imported Audio 2014/12/07 17:21:24 (permalink)
No not really, it wasn't even my intention to use the files as acidized files. I've just simply exported my wav files with the acid meta-data for a while now because the option has been checked by default and I never had any issues. But in the case that I decide to check it out I'll keep that in mind. It's cool knowing that Sonar reads the meta-data and automatically turns the files into a Groove Clip.

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