Anyone got Sonar X3 working at 24bit/96kHz on a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 ?

Anyone got Sonar X3 working with a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, specifically at 24bit/96kHz ?
 
I'm experiencing a weird problem.
This is a brand new install of Sonar X3e Studio and newly clean-installed Win 8.1 x64, on a Socket-2011-based system with no other hardware issue.
FW card is an SIIG NN-E20012-S2 with the TI chipset using the stock Microsoft driver (6.3.9600.16384) as there is no specific driver for this card from SIIG.
Saffire Pro 24 info :
Pro24-003450 firmware version 2761, Hardware ID : 13392, PAL base : 4.1.4 (18150), FW-Driver : 4.1.4 (18150), Revision : 2853
Mixcontrol version is v3.4

Here are the steps to reproduce :
1- Fireup the Saffire and wait for the 3 LEDs to lock.
2- Open Sonar.
3- Go to Options and set the default sampling rate to 96khz for new projects.
4- Create a new project using the default template.
 
The problem : the project window will appear but the mouse cursor will switch to the little blue circle (busy cursor, in Win 8) and loop indefinitely. At the same time, the "FW" and "LKD" LEDs on the Saffire keep flashing in sync every 2 seconds or so.
The “Firewire driver” status in MixControl briefly but constantly switches from “In use” to Connected” and back. Also the Sample rate shows 48 kHz (shouldn't it be showing 96kHz?).

If I click on the X button to close Sonar's window, I get the confirmation message and the LEDs stop blinking on the Saffire. If I click Cancel, the busy mouse cursor comes back and the LEDs start blinking again.
 
Points to consider :
- The Sonar + Saffire Pro 24 combo has no problem at 44.1 kHz and 44 kHz.
- Sonar works fine at 24/96 with a Presonus Firepod on the same machine.
- Reaper works fine with the Saffire at 24/96.
- Raising the ASIO buffer incrementally from the default up to 1024 makes no difference.
- I didn’t mess with Sonar settings except :
                Preference > Audio > Driver Settings > Default Settings for New Projects  --> set to 96000
                Preference > File > Audio Data > Record Bit Depth --> set to 24
- One other thing : in Reaper when I go to Preferences > Audio > Device > ASIO Configuration, the Saffire MixControl pops up and if I click on the sample rate, the drop down menu appears with the usual choices (44.1, 48, 88.2, 96).
However if I do the same in Sonar through Preferences > Driver Settings > ASIO Panel, the same MixControl window appears but if I click on the sample rate, nothing happens, I get no menu.
 
I exchanged emails with both the Cakewalk and the Focusrite tech support. Nothing came out of these email communications as of yet.
Solutions, thoughts, prayers are all welcome

When shifting sampling modes with the Saffire, you should have any programs using it offline and change settings in the MixControl. So you only missed one step:
 

1. Power on the Saffire
2. Open MixControl - adust Sample rate to 96Khz (click the arrow next to the sample rate to access the dropdown)
3. Open SONAR - Set new project to sample rate
4. Create a new project

 
   SONAR will handshake with the Saffire, but it can cause the audio engine to dropout. The preferred method is to do the above. I record normally at 44.1 and just shifted mine to 96 per the above.
 
   I do not use my Saffire for any Windows functions, so it is possible that Windows is set to the other sampling rate, and may also need to be adjusted (in Sound Card properties). It is possible you are seeing SONAR and Windows fighting each other.

I can only speak to Win7, but here is how mine is set and things I have noticed:
 
In sound card properties->Playback tab

1. Realtek HD is set as the default device. I have noticed that Realtek must be explicitly set as default (meaning, with the Saffire online to specifically set Realtek as default... i.e., if it already is set to Realtek, choose the Saffire, then the Realtek (so you made the choice)), and the reason for this is Win7 can get into "pick-and-choose for the user" mode unless the user intervenes. This explicit selection only needs to be done once with both devices recognized by Win7.
2. Selecting the Saffire->Properties button->Advanced tab on that popup -- the default format at the top is set to 24/44.1 for me and both Exclusive Mode boxes are checked. As Win7 is not in control of the Saffire, I can switch the sample rate within MixControl. When Win7 is using the Saffire, I think the bit depth may have to be adjusted here.

For the Recording tab it is identical, with the exception that my default device is a Logitech C910.
 
When I first got the Saffire, I do recall Win7 interfering with MixControl, but this was a year ago, and since then I have left it set up per the above. Downside is that I have two sound systems, but I also do not power on the Saffire unless I am using SONAR. I use my machine for much more than a DAW, so this configuration has worked well for me (I do not want to send Windows sounds through the Saffire), but an alternate method is to physically cable the output of the RealTek to one of the input pairs on the Saffire if desired.
 
The ASIO drivers have aggregation, so multiple programs can access it at the same time (provided the sample rates match). It seems like it is "first come, first serve," so if Win7 has control of the Saffire, the sampling rate in sound card properties would have to be adjusted first (not tested this explicitly).
 
To your point above, yes ASIO will bypass the Windows kernel; but if Windows is using the device itself, it is "still in the loop."
 
 

I am happy it is working for you. It would be nice if a baker could comment about this, as although the Saffire will allow any program to access it, SONAR uses Windows as the "middle man" because not all audio interfaces will do this. If Windows is using the Saffire as default, I suspect that SONAR is honoring that Windows has "control" of the device to prevent potential driver issues.
 
Another option you may want to try with the sound settings is to uncheck both of the "Exclusive Mode" settings on the Advanced tab. It is possible that those settings are creating a handshake in the background that may be part of the issue.

After some more testing tonight, I have found the following :
(BTW the motherboard's Realtek device is set as the default sound device)
 
1- Replaced the Saffire with a Presonus FP10 (borrowed) and the issue disappeared. I didn't even need to mess with the Sound -> Advanced -> Properties settings for the Presonus.
 
2- After re-installing MixControl and the Saffire, I look in Sound -> Properties -> Advanced and see that the Saffire's default device format is 16bit / 48 kHz ;
 
3- Unchecking "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device" and "Give exclusive mode applications priority" under the Sound ctrl panel seems to have no visible effect on the issue;
 
4- In order for Sonar to work at 96kHz on my setup, the following combination is needed :
   a) the device format needs to be set to 24bits/96 under Sound -> Properties -> Advanced
   b) the sample rate in Mixcontrol needs to be manually set to 96kHz (before launching Sonar)
Both a) and b) seem to be needed or else it just won't work, no matter what.
 
5- At that point here's what I did :
I) Set the device format under Sound... to 24/96
II) Set Mixcontrol to 96kHz
III) Close MixControl
IV) Re-open MixControl
  --> the sample rate is still at 96kHz. Lets continue...
V) Launch Sonar
VI) Create a project per default sample rate (96)
  --> project is created, all is good.
VI) Close Sonar
VII) Re-open MixControl
  --> sampling rate reverted back to 48kHz. SURPRISE!
VIII) Launch Sonar again
IX) Create a project per default sample rate (96)
  --> the Sample-Rate Infinite Loop of Hell is back again !!
X) Close Sonar
XI) Re-open MixControl.
XII) MixControl still showing 48kHz (wrong), lets set it to 96kHz (again)
XIII) Launch Sonar again, create a project
  --> Sonar is working again.
 
So once set to 96kHz, if I happen to re-open MixControl AFTER Sonar, I absolutely need to manually re-set it to 96kHz before I close it or Sonar will be going crazy again the next time.
 
5- The above happens with Saffire + Sonar + 96kHz ONLY.
 
In summary :
Presonus FP10 + Sonar + 96kHz = no issue
Presonus FP10 + Reaper + 96kHz = no issue 
(the Sound -> Advanced -> Properties trick isn't even needed with the Presonus, it just plain works)
Saffire + Reaper + 96kHz = no issue
Saffire + Sonar + 96kHz = Sample-Rate Infinite Loop of Hell !! unless MixControl and Sound ctrl panel are manually set accordingly
Saffire + Sonar + any other sampling rate = no issue
 
 
So what is going on here ? Alex.. or anybody else from Cakewalk?
 
Is anybody else on the forum able to confirm this behaviour ?
 
Edit : oh BTW, I completely uninstalled and wiped (including any related registry entry I could find) and then re-installed Sonar, before re-installing MixControl.
Edit : typos, etc.

BTW I get a weird issue whereby Sonar has the audio engine off when I start a project and I often do get Mix control starting at the wrong sample rate. Can be a PITA sometimes. I think it's the Focusrite drivers myself.

Nope, no other apps open.
I even killed some running processes (e.g. Realtek audio mixer/manager) through task manager to see if that could help, but it did not.

+1.
If you are getting nowhere after this I would encourage emailing focusrite support and point them to this thread. Focusrite have responded before on Cakewalk forums, they are generally very helpful and it would be nice to hear from High Wycombe HQ again.

mettelus, may I ask what are you referring to when you say "hardware settings" ?
 
Just tried the "Save to hardware" function, alas no change.
 
On the other hand I can confirm that a change to the sample rate under Sound ctrl panel -> Playback -> Properties -> Advanced -> Default Format will be reflected immediately in the Saffire MixControl.
 
Also I can confirm that, leaving MixControl open, it drops from 96kHz back to 48kHz as soon as I close Sonar.
At next launch however, Sonar will freeze when creating or opening an existing 96kHz project, and in parallel MixControl (still open) is switching from 48 to 96 and back every second, indefinitely...
 
Default bitrate for new projects (Sonar -> Preferences -> Audio -> Driver settings) is 96kHz.
Sound ctrl panel -> Playback -> Properties -> Advanced -> Default Format is 96 kHz.
-- so where is this 48kHz that MixControl is reverting back to, where is it coming from ? Where is it set ?
 
BTW I really appreciate all the help from both of you guys!
I did email both Focusrite and Cakewalk two weeks ago; haven't heard from either for a week. Good idea sending them the link to this thread, will do!
 
I will continue testing tomorrow, it's getting late now.
 
Thanks !!

Yesterday after my post I sent an email to Focusrite's and Cakewalk's respective tech supports.
 
I got an email this morning from Focusrite : they have been able to reproduce the issue on their end and are looking into it
 
In the interim, I'm planning to clean-install Windows 7 tonight on the rig to see if Windows 8.1 has something to do with it...

This is the same  problem .I tried  to get help for. and gave up.
must me windows 8. that"s the problem .

I wanted to bump this and check how things were going.

Hi All,
 
We have acquired some Focusrite hardware for testing, and indeed were able to reproduce the issue. 
Without too much extensive testing (meaning at this point, I've only tried this on Windows 8.1), I was able to work around the issue with the following steps:
 

1. Go to Control Panel > Sound
2. In the Playback tab Be sure "Speakers (Saffire Audio)" is set to the Windows Default Device (right-click the device and select Set as Default Device)
3. With "Speakers (Saffire Audio)" Selected, click Properties. 
4. In the Advanced tab, be sure the Default Format is set to 16- or 24-bit, 96000 Hz
5. Click Apply
6. Repeat steps 2-5 in the Recording tab, if necessary.
7. Launch Saffire Mix Control
8. Be sure the sample rate is locked at 96kHz
9. Open a 96kHz project in SONAR or create a new one. 

What we're doing here is making sure that SONAR, Windows, and the Focusrite hardware are all in agreement with one another at 96kHz. 
 
In SONAR Platinum, the issue appears to be fixed, such that if Windows sees the Saffire set to a different sample rate, as long as Saffire Mix Control and SONAR are set to 96kHz, the project operates as expected. 
 
I will certainly be updating this post as the testing continues.