Adding a subwoofer

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mwall
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2014/12/13 11:09:29 (permalink)

Adding a subwoofer

Oops,  sorry for the double post.  Don't know how to delete.
 
Hey,  I use a smallish set of Yamaha monitors when mixing,  but they are lacking some in the bass area. Today I picked up a self-powered Sony subwoofer at a thrift shop for $15, but I'm not sure how to get it to work with my setup.  Any help would be appreciated. 
Currently,  I use an Echo Gina 3G audio interface,  and run it through a mixer. Do  need a decoder or something to use the subwoofer? Just not sure what to do with it. I tried connecting it to the built in sub out on my computer system, but couldn't get it to work.
post edited by mwall - 2014/12/13 11:45:13

Mark
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    bapu
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/13 12:37:43 (permalink)
    Can you post a picture of the connections on the back of the unit?
     
    My sub woofer is designed to accept the mains of audio interface and then output to the (audio) monitors.
    #2
    johnnyV
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/13 18:39:32 (permalink)
    Post the model number or some clue. If it's powered or passive will make a huge difference to the answers. 
    If it's active and your output goes to the mixer, use an Aux out. 
    If it's passive same thing but you'll need a power amp. 
    You don't want to have a sub all the time, that can result in making bad mix decisions. Yamaha monitors are well know to translate well to the real world. The sub will actually give you a worse idea of your mix. But I use my sub to just see what going on in the low end as a test. I don't leave it on unless I'm doing that. Otherwise all your mixes will actually end up lacking low end. The sub is certainly nice when you blast out a tune for a client! But be careful using it while mixing. 

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    mwall
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/13 23:17:48 (permalink)
    Honestly not much to shoot as far as a photo. It just has a single RCA jack on the back. No other inputs or outputs. It is powered, though. It's a Sony, model No. SA-WMSP4.
     
    I'm wondering if the thing is broken. When running the sound test from my computer's internal soundcard, it would make a loud burst of bassy but staticy noise. But it wouldn't play music out of the computer's soundcard. And before, when I touched the RCA cable I attached to it with my finger, it would make a sound, but now it doesn't. I'm wondering if it was already messed up and I just damaged it more.

    Mark
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    mwall
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/13 23:32:19 (permalink)
    Just tried it again, and when I touch the end of the RCA cable that I've attached to the subwoofer against the metal plate on the back of my computer, it makes some intermittent static sounds that could be best described as a Geiger counter sound, but deeper.

    Mark
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    mwall
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/13 23:36:07 (permalink)
    A little more info, I did try connecting it to my son's home stereo receiver's sub out, and got nothing. My son's powered subwoofer works fine connected to that same output. So, something's definitely wrong with my sub. If it's an easy fix, might be worth it, otherwise, I'm probably just out $15. Any advice appreciated.
     

    Mark
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    johnnyV
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/14 11:29:01 (permalink)
    http://www.manualslib.com/manual/771392/Sony-Sa-Wmsp2.html#manual
     
    It should have worked, Being a consumer device I doubt it can be fixed. Only use would be to bypass the power amp and use it passive, But it's not looking like it would be worth it.  
     
    If your OK with fixing electronics, you could open it up and wiggle the connections inside. 

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    #7
    mwall
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/14 12:22:37 (permalink)
    Thanks for the manual! I did take the back of yesterday and checkedall connections and the one fuse I could see, and ask looked fine. I'm definitely no electrician, and wouldn't know how to turn it into a passive sub. Thanks again.

    Mark
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/14 22:26:00 (permalink)
    It's probably just as well that the thrift shop speaker didn't work. It probably would have just messed up your mixes anyway.
     
    Those inexpensive subwoofers are notoriously loose with their definition of "sub-bass". My wife had one to augment her laptop powered speakers, and it was awful. A peak at around 120 Hz, then dropped off rapidly with essentially no response below about 90 Hz. Worse than inadequate, it made music sound worse than when it was disengaged. A friend had a more expensive one (Bose) that looked an awful lot like my wife's sub, and sounded almost as bad. You just can't get low frequencies out of a small speaker enclosure - it's non-negotiable physics. Such speakers are only going to misrepresent what's in your mix, and mess up your mixes.
     
    Before you go looking for another bargain subwoofer, start by defining your needs. Determine where the frequency response of your Yamaha speakers drops off. You can do it scientifically with a sinewave or white noise generator and a microphone, or you can just ballpark it by ear. Either way, what you're looking for is a subwoofer that can take over where your main speakers wimp out.
     
    This is actually surprisingly difficult to do, though, if you have no way of adjusting the upper frequency of the sub. You will likely end up with either a gap between the sub's highest frequency and the main speakers' lowest frequency, or you will have an overlap. Either way, it's sure to mess up your mixes.
     
    The best solution is to use a crossover. It can be a separate unit, either passive or active, or built in to the subwoofer. Typically the crossover is passive and built in to the subwoofer. You then plug your main speaker connections into the sub, which then has a pair of outputs that go to your main speakers. This assures that the sub and mains smoothly merge their respective frequency responses. 
     
    If the sub has that feature, then you only have to ascertain that it can go high enough in frequency to reach the lower limit of your mains. And, of course, that it's reasonably flat across its range. Subs that satisfy these requirements can be had for between $400 and $1500. Ouch. A little more than your $15 thrift shop find.
     
    However, you can pick up used home theater subwoofers for far less. It's tricky, but sometimes these can be made to work. Avoid the ones with down-facing speakers, and make sure they have an adjustment on the back for setting the upper frequency limit. 
     
    But even if you go out and buy a $1000 sub designed specifically for studio applications, you're still not out of the woods. Those new frequencies you hadn't been hearing before are now going to cause all kinds of problems with room resonances. Windows, doors, knickknacks and things hanging on walls will buzz. Certain bass notes will be way louder than they're supposed to be while others will disappear. It will almost certainly mess up your mixes.
     
    A sub requires an acoustically-treated room, or at least a room designed for audio.Where you place the sub is crucial, and the best spot acoustically may not be the most convenient location. It's a rat's nest of complications. Not insurmountable problems, but it is a complicated process. You have to measure and experiment to get it right. Anything less will only mess up your mixes.
     
    So you see, it's probably just as well the thrift-store sub didn't work. It was only going to mess up your mixes anyway.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    mwall
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/15 00:13:12 (permalink)
    I was doubtful that it would be as easy as just hooking up a subwoofer. With my current setup, my mixes are always more bassy when I listen in my car or elsewhere, than they are when listening in my "studio." So, I though it would be worth a shot. Thanks to your detailed explanation, I realize that the subwoofer attempt was a waste. I do mix with good quality headphones as well, which help me attenuate the bass frequencies in my mixes somewhat, so I will likely just continue that process. Thanks for the expertise on this subject!

    Mark
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    http://www.soundclick.com/markwallace 

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    BobF
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    Re: Adding a subwoofer 2014/12/17 14:44:23 (permalink)
    I use a Polk powered sub connected via a Samson c-control.  Easy to set up and turn on/off for a/b.
     

    Bob  --
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