Helpful ReplyIs anyone interested in discussing amps?

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ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/11 14:59:12 (permalink)
By "new vibrolux", I assume you mean the 70's style amps that just came out. They are not reissues and are more of a vintage modified product. I've compared a blackface Princeton Reverb, the original 70's model and the newest model with the 1968 cosmetics. They all sound different. In fact, I've lined up 3 1965 Deluxe Reverb amps and they all had different sounds. I have a hard time doing comparisons.
 
As for Celestion speakers, well I love them in Fender amps. Have a look in the back of Keith Richards tweed Twins and you'll see they are all loaded with Celestions. As Tom points out, the transformers on the new stuff are pretty wimpy compared to the older models and do affect the sound.

Regards, John 
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#31
Guitarhacker
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/11 17:05:05 (permalink)
Nothing beats the tone of old tube amps. I've had a bunch through the years.... I had one, I don't recall the brand..., I gave $100 bucks for it. It had a big rectifier tube in it that I replaced with a bridge rectifier. And the vibrato/tremolo was contained in a covered box inside the amp.... a neon lamp with a variable slow speed oscillator circuit, and a light sensitive tube to make it work....... to  the monsters like Ampeg with 6L6's and heavy transformers.... you needed to bring your pet gorilla to the gig or buy the crew a few beers to load that baby in and out. The one I had was rated at 100w with a pair of 12's in a combo. I picked up a Carvin VT-112 with 50w that blew the Ampeg away so I sold the Ampeg.
 
The Carvin VT-112 had EL-84's in it.... 4 of them.   That baby was a hybrid. Chips on the front end and tubes on the output. Sounded good though.  I carried spare chips because it had a tendency to blow the chips out. I think I still have a new chip in my guitar case, but the amp is long gone. 
 
After some time, I bought another Carvin.... this one was the 100w combo with a single 12" EVM speaker.... that baby was LOUD.  I believe it was the VTX-100 with 4 EL-34's  and sold the 50w Carvin some time later. 
 
After a time, realizing the 100w Carvin was way too much power for most country gigs, even flipped back to 50w half power...... I sold it and bought a Mesa Boogie Studio 22..... that sweet little baby runs 22 watts out of a pair of EL-84 tubes (AKA 6BQ5).   Love, Love, Love this amp. It gets the tone... both clean and singing, provides plenty of volume for just about any gig, and can be carried easily.   I bought it new for $450 and have been offered many times that amount.  It's doubtful I will get rid of it. I played it in a house band where the amp was set on a 4x12 cabinet behind me. I ran an extension speaker cab with a single 15" Jensen speaker tilted back on the floor at my feet. Talk about a nice way to grab some feedback and ride that wave..... wow....!!!  I sent the output from the Mesa into the two channels of a DCA-800 Carvin power amp, and each channel supplied it's own Lab Series 4x12 cabinet. One on each side of the stage. The DCA had "volume" controls.... they called them attenuators, so both the other guitar play and myself could control the volume of our respective 4x12 cabinets individually. Turn it up until you could hear or got the right fill and that was one.....sweet.....rig.  Tone from the Boogie, volume as needed from the DCA/speakers.
 
I was also taking a course in electronics repair during the "early years" and got a copy of a Marshall 50w schematic, bought the transformers from a music store, picked up the parts and cobbled together a workable amp. I think I bought some KT-88's for it just for grins ..(I'd have to look to be sure... I still have them and the transformers in my shop somewhere) ...and made that thing work for a time. I eventually took it apart when I got a good amp.... it was dangerous. All the wiring was exposed, including the 450vdc plate voltage.  I rebuilt it a decade or so later for grins, and managed to release the magic smoke that makes the amps work.... it stopped working in a dramatic way. I had something connected wrong or the grid bias was off a wee tad too far in the wrong direction.
 
The modeling amps are cool and very versatile. I had a Vox AD-30 that I used at church, I never knew what I was going to be playing from one week to the next so that amp did fine. It sported a 12AX7 preamp tube in the front end and power section was solid state. Might have been FETs. Not sure. It sounded good but never matched the Mesa's tone.  I sold it when I left the church band.
 
I'll always appreciate the tone of a clipped tube section.

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#32
DeeringAmps
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/11 19:30:21 (permalink)
"All the wiring was exposed, including the 450vdc plate voltage."
YIKES!

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#33
Karyn
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 03:57:29 (permalink)
That's livin on the edge....

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#34
DeeringAmps
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 10:49:56 (permalink)
I dumped the stored charge ONCE. It was in that 450ish range.
Fortunately the rig was in "standby" and the caps were disconnected from the rectifier.
All I got was a "jolt"; it certainly reminded me NOT to be careless!
I now have a good idea how "shock" treatment works.
 
T

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#35
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 11:13:03 (permalink)
If you work on gear long enough, it's only a matter of time until you get lit up. I put safety first and try to be as careful as I can, but it only takes a small slip or moment of distraction and WHAM! Glad I don't work on chainsaw's.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#36
Living Room Rocker
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 13:16:24 (permalink)
It really depends on the genre of music, I believe.  I for one turn to Fender amps over everything else.  No other amp has such clean and bright sound.  My favorite, among many, is a '65 Reverb Deluxe.  I always go tube over SS which does make a difference in sound (to me) when it goes to Fender amps.
 
Yet, there is another amp I am enamored with lately.  That is the Hughes & Kettners.  These amps just seem to cut through so nicely with no detectable noise, super clean.
 
Of course these amps are above $300, but this is my current take on amps.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker

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#37
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 14:51:23 (permalink)
Here's my version of an AC15 inspired amp. Not as pretty as Karyn's, but it delivers the goods.
 


Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#38
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 14:52:40 (permalink)
Here's the innards,
 

 

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#39
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 14:53:58 (permalink)
And the finished product.
 

 

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#40
lawp
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 15:01:40 (permalink)
Op, that was a yes then

sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
#41
Karyn
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 15:37:34 (permalink)
Here's a point for discussion...
 
The chassis in my Vox, as y'all can see from the pic, is made in two parts.  The transformers, power supply and output valves are on a steel box, while the input stages and trem/vibrato are in/on an aluminium box.
 
I thought long and hard about this while I was restoring it, but it makes no sense to me why they didn't just make the whole thing from a single steel box.  I know it's "L" shape so the controls are on top, but that doesn't stop them making it all from a single bent steel sheet, and it would have been much cheaper to make it that way.
 
What are the advantages, if any, from having the input section in an aluminium box?

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#42
batsbrew
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 16:29:06 (permalink)
ampfixer
Here's the innards,
 

 




want.
 

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#43
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/12 19:13:35 (permalink)
Karyn
Here's a point for discussion...
 
The chassis in my Vox, as y'all can see from the pic, is made in two parts.  The transformers, power supply and output valves are on a steel box, while the input stages and trem/vibrato are in/on an aluminium box.
 
I thought long and hard about this while I was restoring it, but it makes no sense to me why they didn't just make the whole thing from a single steel box.  I know it's "L" shape so the controls are on top, but that doesn't stop them making it all from a single bent steel sheet, and it would have been much cheaper to make it that way.
 
What are the advantages, if any, from having the input section in an aluminium box?




I don't have a definitive answer to that question. I use aluminium almost exclusively for a couple of reasons. It's such a great conductor that grounding at different points on the chassis is not a problem, and I always get a really quiet amp. No hums or buzz from grounding issues or circulating currents. It's also very soft and easy to work with, so drilling out a chassis can be done with light equipment or hand tools.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#44
mettelus
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/13 02:03:31 (permalink)
Guitarhacker
After some time, I bought another Carvin.... this one was the 100w combo with a single 12" EVM speaker.... that baby was LOUD.



When I began playing guitar I didn't want to skimp on the amp, so went with a Carvin XV-212S and never owned anything else. Although it has a 25% power switch and can be tamed in volume, it is HEAVY (75lbs). I actually installed a set of pop-out casters for it shortly after purchase so I could just roll it around!
 
This thread made me do some research on that unit and I found some interesting reads on Carvin as a company and progression of builds. My amp is from the "EL34 era" someone said, and I googled and found 6L6, but even though there were a lot of discussions comparing them, there wasn't good definition between the two. Are they interchangeable? (It has (4) EL34s and (3) 12AX7s in it)
 
It is sort of ironic, since I did the best research I could in the days prior to the internet being popular and mail-ordered an amp... that is something I would never do today (if I cannot test drive it, I won't buy it), but the reputation of Carvin as a company made me take the risk.
 
Edit: The best description that I have found so far is: http://mesaboogie.com/news/2010/08/6l6-vs-el-34-feel-the-power-of-your-amps-power-section/ so it seems they may have the same socket, but run on different currents.
post edited by mettelus - 2014/12/13 02:15:01

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#45
michaelhanson
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/13 08:50:50 (permalink)
One of my first tube amps was a 1984 X-60, Compact Series. I ordered it with the optional Electro-Voice speakers because I had a friend at the time that was really into EV and he talked me into it. It was a very good amp, but I only kept it for about 5 years.

Like you Mettelus, there was no internet in those days, but I did an awful lot of research into that amp. Mail order only was a bit of a chance.

Mike

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#46
mettelus
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/13 11:37:50 (permalink)
I was laughing last night because I came upon a thread of a guy asking about his amp because it had an incorrect label plate on it. Someone replied saying that Carvin had an era of incorrect label plates, and even relabeling the tube locations with stickers... then asked the op about the "British Speakers" and finally threw in "Is it 'fuzzy'?" Initially I thought he was referring to sound!!! It took a few minutes to realize he meant the case covering, which is something I have always taken for granted... that "fuzzy" covering has kept it from showing any minor wear-and-tear over the years. There was some wisdom in the design of the case itself (probably based on its weight).

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#47
Grem
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/13 18:19:32 (permalink)
For an amp that has EL34 tubes, it would need to be re-biased to be able to use 6L6 tubes.

Grem

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#48
jbow
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/13 19:36:59 (permalink)
ampfixer
And the finished product.
 

 


That looks really nice to me, inside and out. I open old Fenders and the wires run just any old way, sometimes holding an edge of a board up, soldered to the chassis here and there... just ugly, but they seem to sound good. Your wiring looks like art! Cab looks great too!
 
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#49
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/14 18:18:12 (permalink)
ampfixer
Cool to see the stuff folks have stashed. Kenny, you should really be on the lookout for the 6K11 tube in your super champ. If you find a good one, buy it. Nobody is making repro's and NOS or used originals are almost impossible to find. Ampeg used them in a couple amps, but I can't think of another Fender that used them. It's a triple triode, or 1.5 12AX7 tubes if you will.
 
The Vibrolux Reverb is one of the holy grail amps, in my opinion. Good for just about any venue and real punchy with the 2x10 speakers.
 
 



amp fixer ,  I haven't been around for a couple of days …i was caught up doing some music ..
6K11 , hhmm that is interesting sounding tip , I will look into it …..
 
I feel very fortunate to have The Vibrolux Reverb ,
this may sound strange , every time I have played out of it live in a club .
I just went straight in w only a guitar cable …there is something about the way the amp sags when it hits the power amp stage ….there is no other amp that I own that I was able to get that sound and vibe with ….
 
Kenny

                   
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#50
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/14 18:20:23 (permalink)
ampfixer
And the finished product.
 

 
 




ampfixer 
 
Very Nice  
 
Kenny

                   
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#51
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/14 18:31:30 (permalink)
BassDaddy
I wonder how the new Vibrolux's will sound with Celestions. LOL, you can tell which ones were gigged by the brown grill. If they have slightly green tint that tells you something too. 




I've seen them around …sure wish I could tell you …I do have a genuine love for tube amps .
I'm almost positive that I would enjoy playing my guitar out of one  
 
Kenny

                   
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#52
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/14 18:35:32 (permalink)
Grem
For an amp that has EL34 tubes, it would need to be re-biased to be able to use 6L6 tubes.



hmm what s up w that ? what type of amp are you talking about  ? don't the  EL 34  tubes  = 6550  tubes 
 
Kenny

                   
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#53
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/14 21:07:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/12/15 01:54:20
kennywtelejazz
Grem
For an amp that has EL34 tubes, it would need to be re-biased to be able to use 6L6 tubes.



hmm what s up w that ? what type of amp are you talking about  ? don't the  EL 34  tubes  = 6550  tubes 
 
Kenny




EL34 is closer to a 6550 than a 6L6. Mesa and others, make amps that will run a 6L6 or EL34. The EL34 draws twice as much heater current as a 6L6 and uses less bias voltage. If the amp was designed for 6L6 tubes and you drop in a set of 34's, they would run cold and draw a lot more heater current, maybe too much for the power transformer. IF the amp was designed for 34's and you drop in 6L6 tubes, they would run very hot and maybe red-plate because there was not enough bias voltage. Amps designed for both tubes would have beefier transformers and some sort of bias adjustment.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#54
Grem
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/15 23:56:44 (permalink)
Yes Kenny. That is what I was making sure he knew. Don't remember who asked that question. A few posts back.

I have a MK IV that runs 34s and 6s at the same time. Great sound. Best of both worlds.

But a lot of amps would benefit from a rebiasing if tube types are changed.

Grem

Michael
 
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#55
Grem
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/15 23:59:57 (permalink)
Anyone using any 12AT7 tubes in the preamp stage?

How about some black plate 12AX7?

Anyone changing out their preamp tubes at all?

Grem

Michael
 
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#56
drewfx1
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/16 12:01:29 (permalink)
I use a 12AY7 or a 5751 when I want to reduce the gain on an amp with too much gain.

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
#57
batsbrew
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/16 12:15:38 (permalink)
my mesa boogie Mark 2B, runs 6L6's.....
and i've always used mesa branded tubes, they sound and work well,
last a long time.
 
but
 
i have these in my mesa right now:

 

groovetubes "Substitubes", GT 928-PR
Allows the use of EL84's, and converts the amp to a Class A amp.
 
 
i really like this, it totally changes the feel and character of the amp...
they are hard to find now, 
but i like the way they work better than the more common Yellow Jackets
 
 

Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
"Trouble"
"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
--
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#58
Paul P
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/18 21:00:53 (permalink)
 
Well, if we're showing off...  I also love amps but have been away from them for several years.  Anxious to get back into them, though.  Here's a look at the inside of my online avatar. 
 

 

 
 
Specs :
    - two channels, one clean and one with tremolo (vibrato) and reverb
    - Fender's patented 3-tube 'harmonic' tremolo circuit
    - spring reverb with an Accutronics medium delay type 9 tank
    - power section configurable as one single ended 6v6 (5W), or two 6v6's in parallel (10W)
          or push-pull (~18W) (currently in parallel)
    - bias switchable between fixed bias and cathode bias individually for each 6v6
    - separate fixed bias supplies for each 6v6
    - 6 Tung-sol 12ax7s, 2 JAN Philips 12AT7s, 2 Tung-sol 6v6GTs,
         NOS RCA 5Y3GT for single ended version and a JJ GZ34 for push-pull
 
The preamps and tremolo circuit are from Fender's (brown) 6Gn-A series, the reverb and phase inverter for the push-pull configuration from Fender's (blackface) AB763 series, the output sections from the Fender Champ, 5E3 Deluxe, and Deluxe Reverb, and the bias circuit from a Marshall 1987.
 
Cabinet holds a  single 12" Eminence Alnico Red Fang.
 
The amp was built in an OCD blast that lasted several months.  It's not perfect, but I went back to school right after finishing it and won't get around to playing with it for some time yet.
Another of my projects for retirement, if I live that long.
 
I'm right now in end-of-term madness and won't be able to do much discussion of amps for a few days yet.  Just taking a break...
 

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#59
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/18 21:39:26 (permalink)
Wow, my stuff is primitive compared to that amp. My hat's off to you sir.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#60
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