wst3
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Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
Shame on me, I only seem to remember what a wealth of talent and knowledge resides here when I'm really up against the wall.
So let's see if the collective minds can help with something that is more an annoyance than a problem...
I work with virtual instruments a lot, and most of them these days are Kontakt libraries. The single biggest annoyance I face these days is drawing in MIDI CCs. Automation envelopes work really well, and I suppose I could switch to using them for CC1 and CC11 (all exposed controls in Kontakt can be assigned to host automation or MIDI CC), but sometimes the planets align and I can get the CC1 and CC11 curves to sound exactly like I want by manipulating the controls while playing in the part.
But when I can't it is a bit of a nightmare.
Is there a techniques, or even a tool (in Sonar or third party) that makes it easier to draw in MIDI CC data?
The big problem is getting the curves to be smooth, the slightly smaller problem is getting them to start and stop when I want them to start and top. I set the snap off, but the curves remain jagged, and difficult to manage.
In days of old the effect was not so obvious, but as libraries mature the artifacts have become much more audible.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Help???
Thanks!
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Anderton
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/19 09:33:51
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I can think of a few things offhand. For getting nodes to stop and end where you want, you can draw a selection in the automation lane, right-click on the segment in the selection, and choose "Add Nodes at Selection."
For curves, don't forget you can right-click on a segment and choose fast or slow curve. Also don't forget about the draw tool's ability to draw not just lines, but periodic waveforms.
73
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wst3
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/19 13:33:20
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Hi Craig - I know those tricks apply to envelopes, is there a way to apply them to controlled lanes? If there is I have been missing out big time!
Thanks!
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Anderton
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/19 17:22:26
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Sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about the PRV and not the track view. I don't have any tips for that, other than using the line tool to draw short segments of curves...
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lawajava
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/19 20:16:53
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This thread could fit in the Feature Request section. I've also when and if Sonar might start making it easy to draw/update CC info in something like an automation lane.
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scook
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/19 20:32:51
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It is possible to draw/updte CC in an automation lane. SONAR provides a way to convert MIDI controllers to envelops in the Track View Clips menu. Going the other direction is a little more involved requiring a virtual MIDI cable to record automation data in to a MIDI track.
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bjornpdx
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/19 21:53:23
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Maybe a CAL script would work? There's one called C_NTROLR.CAL which might be useful as a starting point. I think there'd be some heavy math involved though.
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BluerecordingStudios
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 01:39:38
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Working with MDI and controllers are the weakest part of Sonar. There should be option to draw same CC simultaneously into multiple tracks selected in Piano roll, to change value of CC through sophisticated function by exact amounts {like changing velocity} Moving by mouse is sometimes problematic and not accurate.
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Vastman
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 02:07:22
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+1
As I'm beginning to add orchestral bits to songs, CC changes are very important and a better input method for smoother trasitions would be a big help.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 02:42:10
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☄ Helpfulby Vastman 2014/12/24 21:02:04
Have you tried drawing with snap on at a fine resolution such as a few ticks?
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Anderton
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 10:40:13
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scook
It is possible to draw/updte CC in an automation lane. SONAR provides a way to convert MIDI controllers to envelops in the Track View Clips menu.
I was completely oblivious to that...good to know.
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azslow3
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 15:36:53
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scook
It is possible to draw/updte CC in an automation lane. SONAR provides a way to convert MIDI controllers to envelops in the Track View Clips menu. Going the other direction is a little more involved requiring a virtual MIDI cable to record automation data in to a MIDI track.
For reverse direction I use the following procedure: - select the clip in question. "Copy special...", include "Track/Bus Automation" and exclude "Tempo changes"
- create new temporarily project, add one MIDI track.
- "Paste special..." into the track, including automations.
- "Save" the project as "MIDI Format 1" MIDI file (does not work with format 0!). Close that project.
- "Import MIDI..." into the original project.
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Anderton
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 18:41:07
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Wow, another great tip. Very clever.
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soens
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 19:21:43
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azslow3
scook
It is possible to draw/updte CC in an automation lane. SONAR provides a way to convert MIDI controllers to envelops in the Track View Clips menu. Going the other direction is a little more involved requiring a virtual MIDI cable to record automation data in to a MIDI track.
For reverse direction I use the following procedure:
- select the clip in question. "Copy special...", include "Track/Bus Automation" and exclude "Tempo changes"
- create new temporarily project, add one MIDI track.
- "Paste special..." into the track, including automations.
- "Save" the project as "MIDI Format 1" MIDI file (does not work with format 0!). Close that project.
- "Import MIDI..." into the original project.
It's too bad dragging the clip to your desktop won't work. Is there a way to know what .mid format the drag function creates? Of course the most tedious method to edit naughty cc data is in Events View. In PRV you can click-hold a cc node and it will display its data in a tool tip. It would be nice if you could double click it and open an editable properties window like you can for the notes.
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rtucker55
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/20 21:32:10
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Even if you could expand/grow an individual control lane, within the PRV, it would be helpful. Currently they have some adjustable height but More would be better and make detailed editing much easier to see.
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MarioD
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/21 09:41:02
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rtucker55
Even if you could expand/grow an individual control lane, within the PRV, it would be helpful. Currently they have some adjustable height but More would be better and make detailed editing much easier to see.
A work around is to hide all the controllers except the one you want to work on then increase that controller window size. This can be a PITA if you have a number of CCs but it does work. PS - I do like your idea much better than this work around!
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rtucker55
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/21 09:51:45
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MarioD
rtucker55
Even if you could expand/grow an individual control lane, within the PRV, it would be helpful. Currently they have some adjustable height but More would be better and make detailed editing much easier to see.
A work around is to hide all the controllers except the one you want to work on then increase that controller window size. This can be a PITA if you have a number of CCs but it does work.
PS - I do like your idea much better than this work around!
Thanks for the suggestion but I already do that (Only if I have to) and I agree that it can be a pita when several controllers are used. I spend a lot of my time in PRV and it generally is functional and usable but, It can be a time consuming monster to accomplish simple things. Hopefully X4 will solve some current workflow issues.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/21 12:48:11
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MarioD
rtucker55
Even if you could expand/grow an individual control lane, within the PRV, it would be helpful. Currently they have some adjustable height but More would be better and make detailed editing much easier to see.
A work around is to hide all the controllers except the one you want to work on then increase that controller window size. This can be a PITA if you have a number of CCs but it does work.
PS - I do like your idea much better than this work around!
Do you use screensets at all? If you can afford to dedicate a few of those in a project to CC editing you can set them up with just the controller you want to edit in each one and then switch between them for editing. It saves having to hide controller lanes all the time as it's already done in the set up procedure. Duplicating screensets makes setup relatively quick as well.
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rtucker55
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/21 16:50:05
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I personally never warmed up to screensets. IIRC there were some issues when they were first introduced and I never pursued them afterwards. Probably something I should look into again.
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skitch_84
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Re: Drawing CCs - is it time to address this?
2014/12/21 19:44:47
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I've always wondered why editing CC data in the PRV wasn't as easy as editing automation lanes in the track view. I work exclusively with virtual instruments, many of which have countless articulations controlled by CC data. It would be so nice to have a straight horizontal line set at a default value to begin with, and then be able to add nodes and create fast/slow curves and such. Why hasn't this been implemented? Do any other DAWs have this function?
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