robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
OK - This involves Battery 3, but is really centered around setting up audio tracks in Sonar for stereo/mono.
For real drums, I understand the notion of setting audio tracks for each drum that has a single mic as mono. No problem. When dealing with a drum synth, however, and setting audio tracks for each kit piece as either stereo or mono:
I use Battery 3 for drums, and as it is the default, have been using stereo channels for individual drum cells, where each drum cell was assigned to a different stereo output channel (1/2, 3/4, etc).
Battery 3 defaults to stereo output for channels 1/2 for all cells, and even defaults to output an individual cell to a stereo output channel with its list of output channels presented for individual cell routing. (I know there is a button for switching it to mono, but they decided for some reason to default it to stereo)
And yet, I keep reading that drums recorded with one mic should have their track set to mono. (which makes sense). In addition, in Battery 3, out of all the factory-provided kits, only 2-3 of them have any drums that use multiple mics for any of the drum cells.
Now, I currently have each drum cell routed to its own stereo output channel in Battery 3 - and then in Sonar I have a separate stereo audio track for each corresponding output channel used for the kit pieces in Battery 3.
So, question 1 is: Should I change the default of Battery 3 so that it uses mono outputs for when I individually route each drum cell of a given kit to its own output channel?
Question 2 is: Should I set the corresponding audio tracks in Sonar, for each individually-routed drum kit piece from Battery 3, to mono?
I am about to set up a bunch of track templates, and custom drum kits, and would like to get all of this set up once - correctly.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 02:19:46
(permalink)
Do you use any effects processing inside Battery eg reverb. Often the reason why they provide stereo outputs for a single drum sound is to keep the effects in stereo. If you are not into using effects at all then perhaps you could consider the outputs being mono instead. Are the OHeads in stereo. If so I would keep that part of the kit in stereo for sure.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2014/12/29 02:27:53
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 04:02:42
(permalink)
I'm using BFD3 for my drums but the principle is the same.
Use mono tracks for all of your spot mics and stereo for the Overheads, Room & Ambient mic pairs.
The clue is in the word "pair"
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3922
- Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 04:22:40
(permalink)
Slightly off-topic, but it may be worth noting that earlier versions of Battery 3 used to have both stereo and mono output channels. As I recall, 1-16 were stereo pairs and 17-24 were mono. After one of the latest updates, there are now 16 stereo pair outputs numbered 1-32.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 05:02:27
(permalink)
I do not use any effects in Battery 3 - would rather apply those within Sonar, and in Sonar those would be placed on the appropriate bus, rather than on a track level.
As far as overheads - these kits don't have cells that I have seen where any mics are mentioned, except for the 2-3 that explicitly indicate use multiple mics, and I don't use those. When I load a drum kit in Battery 3, each cell corresponds to an individual kit piece, such as left snare, right snare, kick, crash 1, etc. There are no settings I see for dealing with microphones used for any particular kit pieces, and nothing for the whole kit, such as overheads or room mics.
So then, I will set up all cells for the custom drum kits I am building in Battery 3 to use mono for each cell's output channel routing, and create mono audio tracks for all of the associated kit piece outputs from Battery 3.
THANKS for the replies - it confirmed what I had thought should be the case. I will be setting up a bunch of custom drum kits in Battery 3, with each kit piece for each kit routed to its own mono output, and will be creating a whole bunch of drum templates for Sonar, which in addition to having separate audio tracks for each kit piece, will also already have basic levels set, as well as panning, track and bus icons, track/bus colors, all the buses (drums master, parallel compression, toms, cymbals, etc.), and all will be in a track folder.
TOO cool!
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 06:23:55
(permalink)
Sounds like a good plan Bob!
The more I delve into BFD3, the more I'm impressed with both the range & quality of the bundled presets.
Up until now, I've done all of my drum mixing inside Sonar with each drum on it's own track (and stereo outs for OH/Room) but for my next project, I'm planning to load up a suitable preset and do it all inside BFD.
The range of Fx on offer are now, IMHO, on a par with many of the plugs that come bundled with Sonar and they have really taken the pain out of trying to get a "good" drum sound.
No doubt the preset will need tweaking to taste but that's a small price to pay when you consider the benefits: not having to worry about setting up many tracks along with their routing, deciding which plugins to use and adjusting each one to taste, the ergonomic benefit of only having a stereo pair to worry about in Sonar.
You can of course load up a kit independently to the mixer, so if I want to apply the Fx from one preset, it's easy to load up a different kit.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
mcouture1961
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31
- Joined: 2014/12/18 18:57:16
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 08:59:48
(permalink)
Hi, first post to the forum.
Great stuff here. Just upgraded to X3 Producer (from Studio version) and trying to get my head around AD2. The outputs section looks weird to me. Stereo outs have strange config such as BD on left and Snare on right, Hi-Hat and Tom1 on anaother pair. However, mono outs gives you everything in mono so that you end up with 2 entries in Console view for Overheads, 2 for the room mics, etc.
I would like to know how you guys handle that?
Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 64-bit , Intel i7 2600K Quad 16GB Focusrite 2i2 M-Audio Axiom 61, Roland Juno Di, Dimension Pro and Rapture Pro M-Audio M3-6 monitors, Guitars and Mics
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 10:30:53
(permalink)
Rather than leaving all the AD tracks as mono, change the input on one of the overhead and room tracks to stereo and delete the other overhead and room mono tracks.
|
mcouture1961
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31
- Joined: 2014/12/18 18:57:16
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 11:07:34
(permalink)
Thx!
That was just too simple! Of course the solution was in SONAR and not in AD.
BTW, this AD2 stuff looks and sounds really good. Much better than SD, at least to my ears. Now I need to build some drum maps and track templates for it so I can expedite the technical work faster and focus on music when inspiration strikes.
Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 64-bit , Intel i7 2600K Quad 16GB Focusrite 2i2 M-Audio Axiom 61, Roland Juno Di, Dimension Pro and Rapture Pro M-Audio M3-6 monitors, Guitars and Mics
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 11:11:18
(permalink)
I only have AD, but a forum member (subjacent) posted a zip file in 2013 with drum maps and templates. The drum map will probably work fine, but the template is mapped to AD.
On my phone here, so is nigh impossible to search/link it for you.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 15:39:41
(permalink)
This is just a thought. Remember that when you set up templates you tend to produce everything more in a similar manner and sound and it does not free you up to create totally different sounding tracks every time. That is the disadvantage of it.
I tend to start with nothing every time and build the setup I am going to create just for that particular piece of music. It allows you the freedom to create a much wider varying sounding range of sounds etc..
One great application for templates is for us professional composers under pressure who need to bang a track out in 1 or 2 days for example. Then they are a godsend. I have template setups too and when in this mode I pull them out and load em up! Then you have just saved yourself a whole swag of time allowing you to get straight into the music much faster.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 19:42:00
(permalink)
Hi, Jeff. I guess I didn't explain it very well - sorry, I'll take another crack at it.
The drum templates I am setting up have absolutely ZERO mixing done to them - they are only containing basic building blocks, such as an audio track for each kit piece, and the routing of each kit piece in Battery 3 to it own audio output - now in mono.
All effects, and even project levels for the kit pieces, will be determined as each project unfolds, not set up ahead of time.
Each drum kit has different kit pieces and its own unique sound, and that is not changing. Setting up things so that I always have a bus for the toms is routine stuff. How the toms are played, and how they end up sitting in the mix, are going to always be figured out with the rest of each project.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/29 21:36:16
(permalink)
☼ Best Answerby robert_e_bone 2014/12/30 19:04:48
AAARRRGGGHHH
That was some wasted time.
3 things of importance arose with my trying to set up one of these custom drum kits per the above posts
1. Some of the cells in the target kit are mono, and some are truly stereo. Because of this, I initially changed parameters in Battery 3 so that I had a certain number of stereo output channels and a certain number of mono output channels, and then I set up each cell to output to a stereo or to a mono output channel, depending on whether the cell contained stereo or mono samples. I ended up with 10 stereo outputs and 10 mono outputs set for these parameters. The fallout for this is realized in #3 Below.
2. Sonar has a problem where it starts to display messed up names for input tracks when trying to assign an input source for an audio track. This normally rears its head when I have too many instruments loaded into Kontakt, but it began to be seen when trying to connect output audio channels from Battery 3 to audio tracks in Sonar. Sonar starts with a left input , a right input, and a stereo input, for each channel, but eventually starts to mess up the names. This is a problem. I don't know if the problem is with Sonar or with Battery 3, or with both, but I am not going to use messed up names for track routing assignments.
3. When I adjusted the number of stereo output channels and the number of mono output channels in the Battery 3 Options, I thought this was kit-specific information, but it is not - it is global for all kits. So if I change them for these custom kits, it changes the output channels for ALL kits, globally. This is a problem.
So, I am back to leaving everything in Battery 3 set to use stereo output channels, even though I have created the custom kits to route each kit piece to its own audio output channel, these are all in fact stereo. I will tell Sonar to use just the left input channel for those cells that contain mono samples.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3922
- Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/30 01:18:56
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2014/12/30 19:04:06
Have you updated Battery to version 3.2.3? Most of the weird behaviour that I used to see in Battery seem to have gone since that last udate.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/30 10:41:58
(permalink)
Actually, I am running on 3-2-2 - I am dimly recalling downloading some NI updates a week or so ago, and perhaps I didn't install them.
More coffeeeeeeee
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/30 12:23:14
(permalink)
IDK, Bob. I had the same idea last year in regards to trying to set up BFD to route to Sonar in a more traditional 1 mono track per kit piece set up. I did it and it works fine but honestly at this point I don't think it matters much for the final result one way or the other. It's all gonna end up wherever you pan it to in the stereo field anyway and I don't think there is much difference in sound (if any). If for some reason there is a problem the stereo tracks can be bounced to a single mono track or split and one deleted/muted. Almost seems to me like having everything stereo doesn't hurt but gives you extra options in regards to effects. It's also hella easier to just let the Insert Synth dialog do whatever it wants and work with that.
I'm no expert though so take that with a pound of salt.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: 2 questions on mono/stereo when setting up audio tracks for each drum synth kit piece
2014/12/31 16:25:48
(permalink)
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|