Rain
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Cabinets...
These days, I'm often back to recording my little amp w/ a 57 - in a context where there is one single guitar track alongside drums and an upright bass, you can't rely on smoke and mirrors all that much. My little 5w tube amp seems to be just the ticket. I've always owned combo amps - though I've played cabs on occasions - but I know that I dig the sound of 12" and of bigger cabs. The Randall's a 10". So I've started considering buying a used cab on the cheap side and hook it up to the little Randall, which will work with cabs of over 8 ohms. This has got me wondering - besides the speakers, which can obviously be replaced according to taste, what justifies such incredible difference in prices. Wood? Tolex? Durability? And just how much money is that difference worth? A brand new 4x12 Marshall MG cab goes for under $260 but I've seen Marshall cabs up to $1000 more than that. Considering that I plan on using this thing only to record here, and that I can pick and install any speaker I want into it, why would I want to spend more than $130 for a used cab which I can always fit with any speaker I like?
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drewfx1
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/04 23:31:23
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In terms of construction, the cheapest cabs are particle board screwed together. More expensive cabs will have dovetail joints with pine or birch or whatever. Speaker costs vary greatly and there are zillions to choose from. If you can operate a screwdriver, there are any number of places that will sell empty cabs in just about any configuration for use with the speaker(s) of your choice.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Rain
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/04 23:38:56
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What I'm thinking is - I don't need 4 awesome speakers. One or two, probably G12H30s, because I know I like them. But I like the sound of big cabs and I'd like to be able to capture that (from a distance), on a second track. And in such case, particle board or not, it seems that the difference would be marginal at best.
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drewfx1
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 13:53:42
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2015/01/05 14:28:01
Well with heavy particle board the weight difference is not necessarily marginal. And keep in mind that you don't want a closed back cab without a speaker in every position, or it isn't going to work like a closed back anymore. As it happens, this was my Christmas present to myself this year (I know I know...  ):  It's a 1x15" convertible back guitar cab that I put an Eminence Legend 1518 speaker in. I got the unfinished cab from this guy: http://www.trmguitarcabs.com/index.html or on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/wolfgang2204/m.html It turned out that buying a nice 1x15" cab from there and having to finish it myself and choose and apply the grill cloth, piping, handle and feet didn't cost enough more than a cheap new cloth or tolex covered cab to make the savings worthwhile. Of course it took a bit of work and the grill cloth isn't just exactly perfect, but aesthetically it's much nicer for my purposes (I like wood  ) and it doesn't leave the house so I don't need any better protection. YMMV. But for a ?x12" cab, there are many more options available than a 1x15" (guitar) cab and you might find something very cheap, or you can just pick up a broken combo somewhere cheap and convert it to a cab. Of course you could also build one yourself, or maybe you know someone who can build you something simple. Most guitar cabs aren't ported and are basically just a box big enough to put the speakers in with either an open or closed back.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Rain
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 14:54:17
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Yep - the idea behind getting something like the MG cab is that it already has speakers in it, so I get the box and the "fillers" so to speak. Actually, I have no idea how they sound - they could be decent for all I know. At any rate, I doubt that they're awful, and I only really need one that I can close mic.
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drewfx1
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 16:16:34
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For a really cheap or used cab check to make sure there are no rattles or buzzes, just in case. I forgot to mention impedance, but obviously matching your amp(s) is a question for both a cab with existing speakers and any new speakers. Some 4x12's are wired with mono/stereo inputs and you can use half of it. And when mixing speakers, more efficient ones can be considerably louder. Personally, I'd take a good sized 2x12" cab with good speakers over a 4x12" with 2 extra of whatever cheap speakers that came with it for anything but the undeniably appealing intimidation factor of a big 4x12.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 16:29:34
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2015/01/05 17:36:05
I owned one of the Marshall MG cabs for a time.... it had a darker sound to it than the higher dollar cabs. IIRC I gave $200 for it and sold it for the same. I didn't use it out and about. It was bought more as a favor from a kid who needed the money....and I used it a few times and mostly it collected dust... until I found someone who liked it. Cheap speakers and particle board construction. If you're gonna put speakers in it anyway, just look for an empty cab for a few bucks.... it doesn't need to be a Marshall brand. I had a pair of Lab Series cabs (4x12) that sounded really nice... I would have loved to loaded them with EVM's but that would have been massive overkill.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 17:58:05
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rain, i'm a bit of a cabinet collector too! i had marshall 4x12's when i first started doing road work, but did not take me long to realize that they were payin' me to play, and the roadie'ing was free!! LOL portage, baby.... got rid of ALL my big cabs, and got a pair of roland closed back 1x12's, still have them to this day. i acquired a DEMETER isolation cabinet, and then got a Vintage style AVATAR cab.. they all have different drivers, and all sound totally different from one another. i mix and match on a whim, usually..... the Demeter currently has a Eminence Legend 122 in it....it's a 15 watt model. and it's dirt easy to change drivers out in it... i also have a Carvin British series, i think a 80 watt model, that i throw in it from time to time... the Roland cab on the top, has a Celestion G12C-30, a rare bird, that came out of a custom model marshall cab. the other roland (the one with the water mark, YES, it survived a flood and is still kicking strong!) has a Celestion Greenback. the AVATAR cab has a Celestion Heritage G12H-55 in it...... very unique sounding machine, it is the studliest of the drivers i have.
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 18:03:48
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2015/01/06 16:46:40
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drewfx1
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 18:53:42
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batsbrew the AVATAR cab has a Celestion Heritage G12H-55 in it...... very unique sounding machine, it is the studliest of the drivers i have.
I'm guessing that with the 55Hz driver and the decent sized 1x12" cab you can get some nice low end out of that and then combine it with the others for more chime.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/05 18:57:38
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craigb
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/06 14:24:34
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Another plug for Avatar. I've had no less than 14 of their cabs and not only were they well made, but their customer service (and, especially, Dave their owner) is excellent!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/10 23:29:38
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14, holy crap. seriously? why so many?
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craigb
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/11 20:06:20
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Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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craigb
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/11 20:14:53
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My kind of Christmas tree!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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craigb
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/11 20:24:21
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I used to have an iso booth under a stairwell. Four Avatar choices here (Alnico Blue, Greenback, Vintage 30 and G12H30 70th Year Anniversary Special). Other cabs had pairs of Greenbacks, a Vintage 30 with a G12H30, two G12H80 Specials (which matched the Vetta Combo speakers) and a couple of older G12S'.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 10:26:53
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HEY, I SEE A UNIVALVE IN THERE! cool... i think andy marshall had a fall from grace.. that's a good sampling of avatar cabs!
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craigb
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 11:33:08
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Unfortunately, almost EVERYTHING you see in the above pictures is now long gone. My final speaker cab went only two weeks ago. Oh well!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 12:01:33
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drewfx1
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 12:07:08
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I was looking at the picovalve at one point, but there were a lot of pretty poor reviews on it.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 14:59:47
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well, it's chinese made, but it's andy marshall's design.. looks a lot to me, like a cheaper version of the univalve reviews are like butt holes....
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drewfx1
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 15:33:01
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batsbrew well, it's chinese made, but it's andy marshall's design.. looks a lot to me, like a cheaper version of the univalve It was quite a while ago I was looking at it so I don't remember the details but the consensus wasn't "Chinese made=bad" or anything like that as much as it has a somewhat different circuit than the Univalve with results that got very little love from anyone (unlike some other inexpensive Jet City tube amps).
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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batsbrew
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 16:58:25
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good to know. thanks. i'm toying with the idea of getting a small tube amp just for tracking, tho i'm looking at some beefier more expensive models, as well as some ceriatone clones.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Cabinets...
2015/01/12 19:58:11
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2015/01/13 11:27:46
Hi Rain, In my opinion, the cool thing about buying an already made cab is....the wood is supposed to compliment the speakers inside it. I've always liked Marshall slant (tops) cabs because they don't "woomf" with low end. My weapon of choice is the 25 watt greenback Celestion. I like them because: 1. they don't need loads of gain to break up...they do that on their own nicely 2. They are one of the warmest speakers I've ever played through 3. They have one of the most focused sounds for recording of all time (meaning, they are made for close mic'ing yet still sound pretty good up to 6 ft away. After 6 ft away though, they start to lose focus because they are made for close range. Whether or not a cab sounds good after 6ft usually means it sounds bad up close or is pretty bassy. from 0-4ft is what matters to me. All the rest comes through the mic really.) 4. They don't have to be loud to sound good. I like them over the regular 75's and the vintage 30's you talked about because the 25 watt greenies don't have that harsh back-tone. The 30's have a sizzle that I just can't stomach and just don't sound as warm, and the regular 75's (the 300 watt cabs) have a 5-6 k nasal sound that is just not for me. I've tried these speakers in my own enclosures as well as some others have built and unfortunately, they just didn't sound good. They only seem to sound good in the Marshall or Mesa boxes. If I were you, I'd definitely invest in one good cab with the speakers you want in it. My old guitar teacher got these little Marshall mini cabs a few years back. They are like 1/4 the size of the ones I have but are still loaded with 25 watt greenbacks. They sounded awesome....and one of those would probably be perfect for you for recording. You'd have the big cab sound with a smaller space taker. I don't know what the heck those things are called, but they were amazing and sounded just as good as mine at about 1/4 the size. To me, nothing sounds like a 4x12 cab especially for rock. I've used 1x12, 2x12, they all sound good....but man, 4x12 just gives you a nice pallet to work from. 2 57's on a 45 or 90 degree angle on the top and bottom, a 421 where it sounds the best to your ears and another mic of your choice getting the room and whew....you get quite a wall of sound at any volume. Check out the greenbacks if you haven't. In my opinion, they are the best Celestion I've ever used and they can be used for everything. Good luck! -Danny
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