Sonar X series workflow

you'll get used to it!! 

The X series is 50% "Who moved my cheese?" and 50% "That's just stupid".
Some of it you get used to; some of it you endure.
 
Many folks don't notice the workflow problems because they work differently from the others who do.
 
On the whole, X3 is a great but sometimes frustrating environment to work in!

Search the forums. Lot's of OP's like this. When X1 came out there wasn't a day that went by with a thread like this. Then one by one they rtfm'd and came back a year later and finally admitted the workflow is better pretty much everywhere. Now plenty of converts here so they can't all be wrong. So stick with it.

You need retraining, it's new software. Check the groove3 tutorials. If you don't have time to reeducate yourself stick with the old stuff, but the more time you put in learning your new tool the more you will get back from your investment, by the time you've mastered it then you will be in a position to know it's real flaws.

PS why aren't you using shortcut keys?

williamcopper
I've seen my share of these posts already, and naturally I generally agree.  I have not yet ever seen one that said, no i was wrong.  

The more wrong a person is, the less likely you will here them make a post saying "no I was wrong".  Sometimes it is not a simple matter of right versus wrong but more of a preference issue.  X3 was a major shift from the previous versions of Sonar and definitely a big switch from Pro Audio 9. One of the trickiest things for technology companies is satisfying loyal customers (I sometimes question if "loyal customer" is an oxymoron) while trying to add new customers and not be seen as falling behind competition.  The two complaints I heard the most about Sonar prior to X series was how hideous the interface was and how awkward workflow was.  I hear that now and then but mostly from people who are basing experience off of older versions or long time users of Cakewalk who hate change.  Whenever I sit down wit ha client or student and they see me working on Sonar, most are surprised how simple the workflow is compared to other DAWs.  Obviously that is not universally agreed upon, but I hear it enough to know that it holds its own.  I'm not going to judge anyone for not liking X series.  Some are simply never going to like it no matter how much "getting used to" they attempt.  Fortunately there are lots of other options fdor them.  To expect Sonar to regress when reviews have been mostly favorable is unrealistic.  No matter what they did, somebody would complain, as is there right.

I think your experience Vastman is typical of many. You express it well. When X1 was released this forum exploded. There very few that saw the benefits and understood what CW was doing. When the uproar settled down after some patches and moving toward X2 users began to see how well CW had done their job. The Skylight GUI was a huge departure from the icon based Sonar we had known so well but it proved far faster to get things done with.
 
Contrary to what has been posted here there were many that did come back with very positive postings expressing regret with how they had bashed X1.   
 
Here right now the vast majority here are very much pleased with the X series and would not go back to pre X.
Yes, it will take some getting used to. Yes, you will have to re-learn things that you had already learned, and yes you will find it is very much worth it to do so. 
 
One thing that has not been talked about are those that are coming from a very old version. Sonar has evolved over the years to be nothing like it was when it first appeared. Sonar XL, though at the time it was cutting edge, is a brain dead version compared to later versions.  No 64 bit anything. No creating buses on the fly (you had to restart Sonar after adding a new buss). No Inspector of any sort. No Groove clips. No freezing. No Synth rack.  The list is endless as the the evolution of Sonar. With that and things like the smart tool which is a pre X idea it could be very difficult for someone to come from Sonar 1 or 2 to adjust to how Sonar has changed even without Skylight.
 
I see some of this as feature shock. A massive adjustment must be made to Sonar even without X.  I look at it as an opportunity to get up to date and at the same time learn a new and very powerful new GUI.
 
No one will say it wont be taxing and will often be full of frustration but the core abilities and features are still there.
They are just better implemented. Plus new features that would not work well with the old GUI are now simple to do.
 
Give it time and a little effort and you will be rewarded.     

Each Edit Tool has a keyboard shortcut. Also H will bring up the Hud. You don't need to have the tool control bar module showing. 

I think perhaps the single greatest weakness of Sonar X series is not a bad feature or missing feature, but rather the lack of a big obvious friendly "Get Started", not tucked away on a website, but in the program itself.
 
The real fact of the matter is that you can learn about how to use the Smart tool and how the envelope editing now works, and most of the other new fundamentals in far less than an hour, and you'll be up and flying. But without some prompting, that's not how users typically approach applications. People are more likely to trial-and-error it, and when familiar functions have been moved to new places, there's some inevitable frustration.
 
It's like when you take someone who's only ever used a Mac and put them on Windows (or vice-versa). Basic functions seem be either missing or stupidly designed, when they're just different.
 
I think the X series design is fundamentally better, myself. But I think it can be fairly said Cakewalk didn't do a great job of helping people transition.

I've been enthusiastic about home music production for many, many years and tried over and over to get started but failed.  I finally managed to get a small measure of proficiency with Project5 when it came out because it was easier to use.  As a consequence I then went back to it's big brother - Sonar 8.5, to take advantage of the additional features and power.  Nope!  Couldn't get my head around it.  Too difficult (and I'm not computer illiterate!).
 
Finally X1 came around and I was off!  So much easier to get my head around.  So many helpful videos coming out one after the other, it was inspirational.  My level of understanding and proficiency is now so much greater and it's all down to the X-series and the ever-helpful videos that Cakewalk released with it.  I've never even needed the Groove3 courses (which you have to pay for), the tutorials released by Cakewalk have always been sufficient to me.  I think they've done a fabulous job.
 
So although I sympathise with a power user who's not finding the workflow to their liking, I just feel that the X-series has opened up the field to so many more people who, like me, have always aspired to make music, but have not been able to due to the complexity that was their before X.

Geoff you're right its T not H.  This is what is so great about this forum we know other members have our backs. 

Well, I'm trying.  And of course there are good things already.   Really all my complaints come down to two thing:  if it's a repetitive thing that I'm going to be doing hundreds of thousands of times, the extra click, mouse move, enter key, or shortcut (long cut) key is going to drive me crazy.   If it's taking up screen when I DO NOT USE IT AND I CAN"T ELIMINATE IT, it irritates me.  Ok three things: unexpected short cut key behavior: too many unwanted shortcuts for things I never personally want to do.  This last one, granted, becomes less of a problem the more a person gets used to it, and it was a problem already in Sonar 3 and 5. 

I started with X1, so I certainly didn't have any previous versions to adjust from. In a relatively short time, I found my way around and was off and running with much of it. Sonar is CERTAINLY more intuitive than the monolith...ProTools. You don't need a college course or two to get familiar with it. The biggest and most frustrating adjustment I ever had, and still struggle with often is the change from Layers to Lanes. I don't struggle with how to manage them, however. I struggle with the problems the software has. But it'll hopefully continue to improve.

I've been watching demos at CES to people interested in SONAR. They generally come with no preconceptions, except familiarity with other DAWs.
 
Many features I've taken for granted are revelations to these people. Some flip out  because inserting an instrument simply involves dragging a plug-in from the browser to the track view. For others, Auto-Zoom is a "why doesn't every DAW do that?" feature. 
 
On balance any piece of software is not about attaining perfection, but about prioritizing tradeoffs. You simply can't have everything you want in the first tier of accessibility. Everyone's needs will  be different, so you have to predict which features are so needed by so many people they should have priority access, and which ones can be three or four clicks away and no one will get too bent out of shape. Then there are the compromises, like how much the smart tool can do depending on its position, and whether you're using modifier keys.
 
SONAR has all the gear that a quarter million dollar studio had not that long ago. No one expected to walk into Record Plant and run a session all by themselves with everything a patch cord away, yet those expectations influence how people expect to use a DAW. 
 
I've always said the key to transitioning from SONAR 8.5 to SONAR X-series is less about learning X-series and more about unlearning 8.5. Of all the DAWs out there, Cakewalk has chosen priorities that come very, very close to my priorities, which revolve around songwriting, audio for video, narration, and of course recording songs. So, there's a "match" and I'm very happy using SONAR.