For those who are concerned about paying in advance for unreleased features...

Most people seem to be getting the gist of what's happening now after a few days of chaos here on the forum but there is one theme that I keep seeing come up. I think it is indeed a valid and understandable concern so this is not me being snide or trying to give anyone a hard time. I just think some folks don't have some of the minor nuances of the new system hammered out like those of us who've been glued to forum for the past few days.
 
The consistent complaint is this. "I'm paying for a product BEFORE I get to see what is going to be included."
 
This is a completely valid, logical and intelligent concern. Who the heck pays for something without knowing what they are getting? It's madness. Many users trust Cakewalk enough to go ahead with the purchase and personally I would have no problem hopping on board if I had the money (which I don't right now but that's not the point).
 
What has gotten a little lost in the shuffle and is perhaps confusing some folks though is they actually don't have to put ANY trust in Cakewalk in this regard. It is very easy in the new system to be able to see what you are going to be getting on a yearly basis.
 
How? Well let's pretend that the new Sonar has absolutely no new features or improvements. That you are basically getting X3e as it is right now and that if you pay in advance you will receive "X4" incrementally over the course of the year. I'm saying this because that is essentially what it is going to be like starting NEXT year for fully up to date members.
 
So naturally dropping that kind of cash for something sight unseen is a hard pill to swallow unless you have ultimate trust in the provider of the product/service. The solution? You wait a year before buying. That way you DO get to see all the improvements and additions that have been made over the course of a year just like we did with the old model of one big cumulative release every year or so. You then make your decision based on that... just like you would have done for X1, X2, X3...
 
BUT you ALSO then get a whole new year of content as well on TOP of this years version. That would be sight unseen but what do you care? You were happy enough with the improvements in X4 to buy it, you now have it and that next year is simply gravy.
 
However since this current version DOES contain a year's worth of new content and improvements if you waited a year to see what ELSE they are going to include then if you bought in you would be getting THREE years worth of releases... for $199. So you can already see the current improvements (which are pretty awesome) and whatever they release this year. The only thing you won't see is that third year's worth of improvements but who cares? You already got 2 years worth of Sonar.
 
So if this was your concern Cakewalk has you covered. I even asked the Baker's about this in the monster thread and although they would obviously much prefer you keep an up to date membership they are totally fine with people not opting in right away.
 
In fact I was even told they do not even intend to impose any time restrictions on our upgrade discounts like we had with the old model (like if you owned X1, skipped X2 then bought X3 your upgrade would have cost more than someone who did buy X2). This is HUGE! In theory, if they do indeed stick to this model, you could not upgrade for 5 YEARS and still pay the same upgrade price you would now. People are saying that Cakewalk is forcing US to trust THEM but in reality with this model it is the other way around. They are trusting US to upgrade regularly which definitely tells me they intend to haul butt to encourage us to do so with "must have RIGHT NOW" type add ons and improvements.
 
Now inevitably the next concern after people wrap their heads around all THAT is "But they said they would be releasing content that will only be available to up to date mebers! I'm going to miss out on all sorts of stuff if I wait and my Sonar won't be as good!!"
 
That is partially true BUT you won't be missing out on anything in the actual program's main package. It would be more like missing out on EXTRA content like the X2 Content Club or those freebies people using current versions have been getting for years.
 
However I'm going to assume some of that extra content will be of higher quality than the old Content Club freebies because they really do want as many people signed up as possible. All that remains to be seen so I won't speculate on that. However I am assuming they would let people know well in advance of what extra content is coming up. Then if you see something you absolutely MUST have you can decide to buy in at that point so you don't miss out. So even MORE choice.
 
As far as the main program though they CAN'T exclude the REALLY good stuff that one would expect in a new major release. Remember they are trying to entice NEW customers as well so if the main package (without the extra add on stuff for members) is sparse or they don't include major features they shoot themselves in the foot. When you buy in at any point you will get the complete version at that point so it would be just like if you were on 8.5 then bought X3 right now. You'd get ALL the new stuff in X3. Of course a couple things have been added and removed since then because they were either a) creating stability issues or b) they have been replaced with something of equal or better quality but (for example if you missed X2 you won't have R-Mix which I do have) but those are very minor losses that certainly do not equate to the hundreds of dollars you've saved in upgrade charges over the years.
 
As you can see it is VERY one sided in the customers favor here. I said it before Cake must either be completely INSANE to set things up like this OR they really REALLY believe they are going to produce a product SO good that people are going to happily pay to get the stuff sooner rather than later.
 
The ONE carrot they are really dangling in front of us is that extra content and yes, that stuff could be extremely useful but it is BONUS stuff for PAID members. They have to give SOME incentive for people to stay up to date with their membership and that is it so if that kind of extra content is that crucial to you then sorry to say, you will have to ante up. On the other hand none of may be useful to you at all and you'd still be getting a very robust package for your $200 upgrade price. It is up to you to decide whether the extra content is worth it to you and again you should have plenty of notice (if you pay attention to what's happening) as to what that extra content is.
 
So if you managed to read all that and still think this is a bad deal or somehow Cake is trying to pull a fast one on us I don't think there is anyway to convince you otherwise. In that case it probably be best if you just wait it out and see what happens or consider other options for your production needs.
 
Again, this post was intended to inform, not berate or demean anyone. Don't turn this into another flamewar filled with angst and/or further disinformation or I will ask the Hosts to lock the thread.
 
To the Bakers, if I have made any errors in my logic or understanding of the new model please let me know so I can correct any mistakes.
 
Peace.

Great post Beep!

Just want everyone to be informed, happy and productive. Speaking of which I should get off my butt and do some work on my current abomination.

Heheh. You're a good cat, steve. I'm still boppin' along pretty well with X3 so I'll survive. I certainly wouldn't say no to an evaluation copy from the Baker's though but I can think of much more deserving members than I for such a gift.
 
*cough*scook*cough cough*
Sorry... seem to have gotten some desert sand stuck in my throat.

John
Very useful thread Beep. 

Well I feel bad for explaining basically how to take advantage of the Baker's trust and generosity (and I did mull over whether it was appropriate or not) but it is better than people jumping ship because they aren't understand exactly how much choice they are currently being given. I would completely understand if this thread got yanked/baleeted.

Living Room Rocker
Hey, good job on covering the corners, Beep.  But, like you mentioned, there is so much that is yet to be seen in the coming year which can make or break a good deal for customers (both upfront and monthly members).  After all, we did have expectations based on CW's promotions (e.g. the "super synth" Beatscape, AutoSnap (which has only been updated to date), the Matrix View, etc.) which hasn't or is yet to be fully developed.  There are still some mature lingering bugs in SONAR which have never been resolved and features which have been requested ad infinitum (e.g. gapless playback which was addressed but only created "motorboating" is still not there; and dare I open the notation can of worms).  So, it does look like quite a gamble particularly for the mature user moving to a monthly membership, advantage of affordability vs. value for dollars.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker

Well as I said if you wait it out then you can see what has been done then hope on board if and when it seems they've developed a workable version for your tastes/needs/wants. This model takes away a lot of the doubt associated with a bulk yearly upgrade. For example let's say you like all the new features and stuff at a certain point and want to buy in but are concerned it may not work as advertised (due to bugs) or won't work on your system. Instead of dropping the whole upgrade price you could pay for a month, test it out and then if you like it pay for a 12 month membership starting the following month to take advantage of the "upfront" pricing. We were never able to do that before.
 
As far as bugs and things getting broken as the program progresses I'll admit this is one thing that concerns me. I may have a working version (or a version that works on my rig) then I pay upfront to upgrade and all of a sudden I've got problems that I'm stuck with. I have to trust that Cake is going to fix these things.
 
In that scenario though we still get more options because we can "rollaround" (as the Baker's have coined it) between versions while we wait for things to be fixed. Also we could have (shoulda woulda) tried it out for a month membership first but shiz happens so maybe we can get a little burned on that if we are not careful.
 
The thing is though because it seems the Baker's have settled on X3 as the foundation for this ever evolving program (which IMO was a good choice as a starting point because X3 is the most stable version I've owned since I bought in at X1) instead of releasing a huge version all at once that has only gone through the in house Alpha testing the Baker's do then the semi out of house Beta testing it is smaller bits and changes being rolled out. That makes it much easier to keep a handle on and fix bugs once things hit the market (and we can "rollaround" to the best working version in the interim).
 
So instead of a years worth of stuff all slamming the communities various systems all at once which inevitable uncovers a mountain of bugs all over the program which then need to be patched it will be one thing at a time. That is much more manageable and will result in a quicker, more focused response to problems as they arise.
 
This of course is all speculative and it relies HEAVILY on the Baker's doing their jobs and doing them well. I personally think they have put a MASSIVE onus on themselves but they certainly seem enthusiastic... if not outright elated... at the chance to operate like this so whatever. I'm rooting for them and personally have a good feeling about this.
 
And that's coming from a HARDCORE pessimist with sh*tass luck. Perhaps I'll be eating my words in a year but really... what exactly will I have lost? Absolutely nothing because a) I haven't even spent any money yet and b) even if I did I'd still own the current version being release which looks pretty awesome and so far hasn't caused ANY major complaints so far from the advance release users.
 
Seriously at this point during even the release of X3 the forum was ablaze with bug reports (albeit minor ones). Only a few people have it though so that may change but I'm assumign they did it this way so that they could get an extra testing stage between the Beta testing and the actual market release. They will probably have some patches before it is even available to the general public based on the input of the advanced users... which again is really smart and encouraging.
 
...wasn't I supposed to be working on my song? Oh yeah... lulzfurmaddiction!!11zors

Paul P

Beepster
Well I feel bad for explaining basically how to take advantage of the Baker's trust and generosity ...

We all know how to do that.  I've felt guilty ever since I upgraded to X3P + AD2 for 75$.
 
Now you have to wait three years instead of one before screwing the Bakers.
 

There may still be promotions. Still a $75 upgrade to X3e is still half price of the full upgrade of $150. So to get half off of $200 you would only have to wait one year... and that's AFTER this first year.
 
If you waited one year from now you would get X4, X5 and X6 for $200.
 
So $66.66666666666667 per version (or rounded to the nearest dime $66.6).
 
Oh my. That unbelievable value offends my Christian values. Perhaps the new Sonar truly IS evil!

Beepster
Well as I said if you wait it out then you can see what has been done then hope on board if and when it seems they've developed a workable version for your tastes/needs/wants. This model takes away a lot of the doubt associated with a bulk yearly upgrade. For example let's say you like all the new features and stuff at a certain point and want to buy in but are concerned it may not work as advertised (due to bugs) or won't work on your system. Instead of dropping the whole upgrade price you could pay for a month, test it out and then if you like it pay for a 12 month membership starting the following month to take advantage of the "upfront" pricing. We were never able to do that before...

You certainly covered a lot there, Beep.  But just as you covered the bases, more problematic scenarios arose.  For instance, I go the monthly route and experience a bug.  I stick around for a month and still no fix.  Now I feel a bit trapped because the choice is stick around and wait for a fix or lose the money invested along with SONAR (full functionality) too.  We have already gone through a series of versions with some bugs still lingering for a very very long time.  Remember, SONAR X series is still a young generation compared to where the Bakers left the previous generation at 8.5.3, which was not bug free (stable or not) rendering some features unusable, like ACT.  Yeah, we can trust CW and see what happens, but is a semi/monthly commitment an answer to that?  No, at face value it is merely a means to make SONAR attainable at a more affordable price, albeit at a risk of value over time.
 
I am not trashing Cakewalk or a business model, just a long time user (much longer than the date of joining the forum) having both enjoyed SONAR and pulled my hair out over it.  It has already been quite an investment.  Can the Bakers offer or promise better results at this turn?  One thing I am sure of is at least SONAR will not cause any terminal health affects, lest I lose a huge contract when crucial, career making material is lost.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker
P.S. A rhetorical question at end.