Membership and bug fixes

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Kamikaze
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2015/01/25 06:41:38 (permalink)

Membership and bug fixes

Now membership give us access one years worth of bug fixes, should all reported bugs be fixed within a year.

 
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 07:08:25 (permalink)
    Membership gives access to a year of new features and bug fixes. This is approximately the same (or better) as the previous deal where you would buy the "latest version" and get about half a year of patches, with the next major version coming out roughly a year after the current one.

    I would assume that if new features are added over the course of a year, new bugs might also find their way into the software. So after a year you might be left with a few. This is not any different from what happened with, say, X2. However, the CCC supposedly makes it easy to roll back versions. If your membership expires in August and a bug from July was not fixed, you should be able to roll back to the June version (just as an example). That's actually better than it has been up till now.
    #2
    Kamikaze
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 07:17:16 (permalink)
    But should any bugs be older than a year? I know bugs will be introduced in the year you subscribe, but is it reasonable to let bugs roll on year after year, when your subscription entitles you to a years worth of bug fixes?

     
    #3
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 08:49:27 (permalink)
    No I'm assuming that serious bugs that are present NOW would be fixed within a year. Certainly the aim of the bakers with this new system is to roll out updates and fixes quicker. Still, some minor bugs can linger for a long time. Again, not any different from the way it is now.
    #4
    Paul P
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 09:26:38 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    Still, some minor bugs can linger for a long time.

     
    Staff View comes to mind.
     
     

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    #5
    Kamikaze
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 11:24:42 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    SNo I'm assuming that serious bugs that are present NOW would be fixed within a year. Certainly the aim of the bakers with this new system is to roll out updates and fixes quicker. till, some minor bugs can linger for a long time. Again, not any different from the way it is now.



    Why can they, why is this acceptable? They don't advertise that it will contain bugs, so why is it acceptable for them to ignore bugs for more than a year, when the agreement is bug fixes for a year?

     
    #6
    azslow3
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 11:37:21 (permalink)
    Kamikaze
    Why can they, why is this acceptable? They don't advertise that it will contain bugs, so why is it acceptable for them to ignore bugs for more than a year, when the agreement is bug fixes for a year?

    You will get all bug fixes they write within the year, but that does not mean they promise to fix all bugs.
     
    In case you want to have bug free program, download TeX. It is free. And that is the only known program which has no bugs (http://www.truetex.com/knuthchk.htm)

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    #7
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 13:15:18 (permalink)
    All software has bugs. Most of them you will never notice. It's simply impossible with a code base this large to write completely bug free. Nothing is different from the way it was, except that the bakers promise a shorter update/bugfix cycle.
    #8
    Splat
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 18:31:33 (permalink)
    Microsoft is sending you bug fixes for Win 7/8 via windows update aren't they? I don't imagine them stopping any time soon.
    I do agree old bugs do need quashing though. I haven't installed the latest and greatest yet. Let us see what happens, try bumping this thread in Feb 2016.
     
     

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    #9
    Kamikaze
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 20:14:17 (permalink)
    No where in post posts have I mentioned I am expecting bug free releases, I am just asking should there be a commitment to fixing new bugs, an acceptable time frame being that we are only entitle to a years worth of fixes when we pay.
     
    CakeAlexS
    Microsoft is sending you bug fixes for Win 7/8 via windows update aren't they? I don't imagine them stopping any time soon.
    I do agree old bugs do need quashing though. I haven't installed the latest and greatest yet. Let us see what happens, try bumping this thread in Feb 2016.
     
     


    Yes, but I pay for my operating system once, and they aren't asking me for money every year to fix those. yet they still send me updates.

     
    #10
    Splat
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 20:23:24 (permalink)
    Wait for the change log to be published, I suspect that will demonstate commitment with the latest product. If you are still not convinced wait 3 to 6 months before purchasing and observe what happens.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #11
    Kamikaze
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 20:57:38 (permalink)
    Paid for Platinum already. I know they will have fixed a lot, but I think their should not be a back log going back more than one year of reporting. We can't expect bug free, but I think we should expect commitment to being as bug free as possible.
     
    There is a balance between development and maintenance. Most users seem to be happy with it being at it's most reliable in in X3e.
     
    What's a reasonable time frame for reported bug to be fixed, being now we are only entitled to a years worth of fixes? This is all I am asking in this thread.
     
    What's your opinion?

     
    #12
    Splat
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 21:10:58 (permalink)
    It depends...
     
    I'm more interested in knowing what the change log is. There have been a lot of legacy issues building up over the years and having most of these fixed and out of the way in platinum would mark a clean slate and send out a great hint as to where their priorities will lay over the next 12 months.
     
    As I have no idea where Sonar will be in 12 months time it doesn't really concern me much about any turn around time. In 12 months time I will assess the situation as to whether or not I want to buy the product again, and if I was ultra cautious I would be a late adopter.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #13
    rebel007
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 21:29:40 (permalink)
    I have always been an early updater, and even though I'm not usually a gambler, I guess I'm taking the bet that all, or most, major bugs will be fixed within the 12 months from when I purchased. The most frustrating thing that could happen is if a major bug is found 13 or so months after purchase and I will have to pay a new membership fee to get that bug fix.
    We got fixes for X3 free of charge, and even though there were probably some fixes that were not added until Platinum, there was the expectation that any major bugs would be rolled out as a free update. Now, any major bug that's found after 12 months will be an extra cost for an early upgrader.
    Having said that, I don't begrudge Cakewalk trying a new rollout system and I will reserve any judgement for next year.

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    #14
    tlw
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 22:21:02 (permalink)
    rebel007
    We got fixes for X3 free of charge,

    More likely the anticipated cost to Cakewalk of fixing bugs was factored into the purchase price in the first place. At least I hope it was because any software company that doesn't price in bug fixing is likely not to last very long.
     
    Software and bug fixing is no different to how shops factor in the expected loss to shoplifters in their prices. Or the vehicle manufacturers who add to the vehicle's sale price an amount hey anticipate will cover the costs of carrying out anticipated warranty work. Which is to say all vehicle manufacturers.

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    #15
    stickman393
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 23:12:48 (permalink)
    Kamikaze
    What's a reasonable time frame for reported bug to be fixed, being now we are only entitled to a years worth of fixes? This is all I am asking in this thread.
     
    What's your opinion?



    My opinion is that nothing has changed in this respect. There are bugs in X2 and X3 that will never be fixed by a patch release for those products. 
    I am not a SONAR programmer, so I can't tell you what a reasonable time frame is. I do know that Crash-worthy bugs that affect more than one isolated system usually get fixed pretty quickly.
    #16
    Kamikaze
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/25 23:59:20 (permalink)
    It's not about being a programmer, but a customer.

     
    #17
    AT
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 00:54:20 (permalink)
    If there are any showstopper bugs they will get fixed - or that is how Cake has operated in the past.
     
    Staff view is not a bug, it is a feature and until Cake upgrades it will remain as it is.
     
    As others have said, bug fixes came all year round until it was upgrade time.  Once there is an upgrade - from X2-X3, all the bugs in X2 remain unfixed.
     
    The OP is asking for something which will never exist - buying software and paying once and expecting it to be fixed forever.  The best bet is to make sure your system as currently configured is bug free.  Report any bugs and hope for a fix before your membership ends.
     
    @
     
     

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    #18
    Anderton
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 03:25:20 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    Microsoft is sending you bug fixes for Win 7/8 via windows update aren't they? I don't imagine them stopping any time soon.

     
    They stopped on January 13 for Windows 7, which is now in its "extended support" phase. This means all updates are now only security patches. Non-security hotfix support is available, but only if you purchase an extended hotfix agreement within 90 days of when extended support begins.
     
     

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 08:32:18 (permalink)
    Kamikaze
    No where in post posts have I mentioned I am expecting bug free releases, I am just asking should there be a commitment to fixing new bugs, an acceptable time frame being that we are only entitle to a years worth of fixes when we pay.
     
    CakeAlexS
    Microsoft is sending you bug fixes for Win 7/8 via windows update aren't they? I don't imagine them stopping any time soon.
    I do agree old bugs do need quashing though. I haven't installed the latest and greatest yet. Let us see what happens, try bumping this thread in Feb 2016.
     
     


    Yes, but I pay for my operating system once, and they aren't asking me for money every year to fix those. yet they still send me updates.


    But you get charged to go from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 10 etc
     
    How is this any different?

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    #20
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 10:27:19 (permalink)
    because now there is no "sonar 1", "sonar 2", etc?
    #21
    azslow3
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 10:30:39 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    But you get charged to go from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 10 etc
    How is this any different?

    There is no more SONAR X1->X2->X3, so it is different.
     
    But the reality is that there was no bug fixes for previous versions of SONAR after ~1/2 year. So 1 year is an improvement, if that really works.
     
    The lifetime of one SONAR version was extremely short compare to Windows, while "usefulness" time is approximately the same. "Extended support" for Windows is for older versions. It is not possible to get updates for X3 even for "members". So I think such comparison is not valid.

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    #22
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 10:34:19 (permalink)
    Semantics aside, has anyone on this thread identified a totally predictable, repeatable bug that they expect Cakewalk to fix within a reasonable time frame?

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    #23
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 10:40:13 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Semantics aside, has anyone on this thread identified a totally predictable, repeatable bug that they expect Cakewalk to fix within a reasonable time frame?


    here ya go http://forum.cakewalk.com/Outstanding-Issues-as-of-X3E-UNOFFICIAL-m3009969.aspx
    #24
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 11:23:11 (permalink)
    I'm aware of that thread.
     
    Let's try and be productive here - are there any show-stopping bugs affecting you personally in your use of Sonar?
     
    I'm not trying to be clever, I'm just trying to help with any specific problems you might be experiencing.

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    #25
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 11:32:16 (permalink)
    me? no, i'm still on x1, lurking with intent to see what gets fixed before dropping the moolah, as x1 and x2 were both left with [ahem] showstoppers, i'm keen to see how the new version-number-less-version release goes :-) and just for clarity, i'm not bothered by the new membership thing as it seems to be very similar to previous versions in all but name
    #26
    bapu
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 11:38:01 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Semantics aside, has anyone on this thread identified a totally predictable, repeatable bug that they expect Cakewalk to fix within a reasonable time frame?

    Since I do drum folder "the right" and it doesn't affect me. the solo bug when MIDI is not last in the folder would be nice to have fixed in a "reasonable" time frame.
    And the issue where if I open a PRV for a MIDI clip that was saved fully zoomed in the keyboard does not match the MIDI notes to the right (in case you want to select all the occurrences of that note) until I zoom out then back in again. 
     
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Let's try and be productive here - are there any show-stopping bugs affecting you personally in your use of Sonar?

    Nope.
     
    I have has some (what seem like) project specific issues which I've reported.
    #27
    bapu
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 11:40:28 (permalink)
    pwalpwal
    i'm keen to see how the new version-number-less-version release goes :-) 

    Beepster calls it a build. I like that.
     
    Every "release" will be a build.  As of today the build ends in .254.
    #28
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 11:41:44 (permalink)
    is all the stuff fixed in the build they released?
    #29
    microapp
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    Re: Membership and bug fixes 2015/01/26 13:31:52 (permalink)
    Not sure what 'all the stuff' means.
    In a program with the complexity and size of Sonar it is not realistic for it to be 100% bug free...ever.
    Are there any show-stoppers? I have not run across any yet

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