-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Staff: from basics and up
Could anyone please share links to nice tutorials on how to quickly write notes in Staff View?
For example, I would like to copy some notes that are written in PDF into MIDI track via Staff View. One of the first tasks is to add notes of different type (1/4, 1/8, etc).
I am having real difficulties with that.
Most of the actions look very counter-intuitive to me and take a lot of efforts, almost nothing is possible with a single click. May be I completely misunderstand the concept behind the Staff View but it's definitely one of those rare examples in software world that confound me.
How to do it "right way"?
Thank you in advance!
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/27 18:13:36
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby -vince- 2015/01/28 14:58:44
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/27 18:29:26
(permalink)
Thank you, pbognar, that helped but not too much.
I am a bit confused. For example, changing a note's duration is accomplished with multiple clicks + keyboard typing (!). They even tell that in order to get 1/4 you have to type "1:000" (!!) I am sorry but that's nonsense. Seriously, I don't understand why it's done in such a complicated way.
OK, they did it this way - but give us an ability to work with shortcuts! It is not possible either, isn't it?
This software is on the market during decades. Why no one from Cakewalk cares about a usable Staff View? It's not that difficult to create a sensible UI. I just don't understand that...
|
Jimbo 88
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1828
- Joined: 2007/03/19 12:27:17
- Location: Elmhurst, Illinois USA
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/27 18:36:37
(permalink)
The quickest way for me...
Play the notes in from a midi keyboard, quantize, open Staff View and a Piano Roll View. Edit in PRV and see the changes in SV.
I can get that done very quickly.
Cakewalk By Bandlab Cubase 9.5 Pro Windows 7 64 Bit Core i7-8700 32 Gig Ram 3.20ghz RME Fireface 400 Audio Card Behringer FCA 1616 Sweetwater Creation Station
|
Karyn
Ma-Ma
- Total Posts : 9200
- Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
- Location: Lincoln, England.
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/27 18:39:47
(permalink)
The staff view is very under developed, but this is recording studio software not score composition.
The best way to enter midi is either by playing it or using the piano roll view.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
|
57Gregy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14404
- Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
- Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/27 23:33:17
(permalink)
In earlier Cakewalk programs, there were keyboard shortcuts for selecting note duration; 1 for whole note, 2 for half and so on.
During my brief flirtation with Music Creator 6, I learned to my chagrin they had discontinued that feature. I used the shortcuts often.
I learned here that you can assign/re-assign shortcuts, so I can set it up as I'm used to it being.
If I ever fire up X3; still using SONAR Home Studio 6 XL.
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 11:57:22
(permalink)
Thank you guys for your thoughts and advice.
My keyboard is coming so I don't have it now - hence cannot use it as input method.
Yes, Sonar is not a score composition software but hey - they already have too much things programmed in Staff View. They have already put efforts into it. My point is that it is pretty easy to make it more user-friendly. In fact, I am surprised that they could make it so wrong. It's like a square wheel or something. Feels like it's implemented by programmers who are far away from the subject.
|
TomHelvey
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 537
- Joined: 2013/02/26 20:23:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 12:03:56
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby -vince- 2015/01/28 14:58:37
The fastest way to switch note durations is to hit T which brings up a toolbar with the note selector at the mouse cursor.
System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro PCIe: UAD Octo USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc. https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
|
rabeach
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2703
- Joined: 2004/01/26 14:56:13
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 14:32:37
(permalink)
-vince-
Thank you guys for your thoughts and advice.
My keyboard is coming so I don't have it now - hence cannot use it as input method.
Yes, Sonar is not a score composition software but hey - they already have too much things programmed in Staff View. They have already put efforts into it. My point is that it is pretty easy to make it more user-friendly. In fact, I am surprised that they could make it so wrong. It's like a square wheel or something. Feels like it's implemented by programmers who are far away from the subject.
+1 it was easier to use 20 years ago. :-)
|
michael diemer
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2013/05/24 18:54:50
- Location: Maine, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:04:10
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby -vince- 2015/01/28 15:08:30
Another way to change the value of note durations: Use the length feature under Processes. Figure out what percentage will give you the new value. For example, an eighth note is half as long as a quarter note. So increase the eighth notes by 150%. you can lasso as many eighth notes as you have, and then change them all instantly this way. Note: make sure you uncheck the "start times" box, or you will also change when all the notes start! just change the "duration" parameter. (See, staff view does have some uses).
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:06:18
(permalink)
TomHelvey
The fastest way to switch note durations is to hit T which brings up a toolbar with the note selector at the mouse cursor.
Yep, that helps, thank you Tom. At least that moves staff editing from "Grandma and her new smartphone" category into "Heck, just another 42 clicks and I am done!".
|
dfp123
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14
- Joined: 2012/01/05 23:31:58
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:08:22
(permalink)
I had done some work with the Staff View but ultimately broke down and purchased Sibelius. It didn't seem like the Staff View was a priority, nor was going to be in the near future.
There is a program called Notion which handles scoring ($150). I used that until I grabbed Sibelius (by cross grading).
I would have preferred to keep it all in one app but I was seeing the writing on the wall. Otherwise, Sonar is a fantastic application!
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:13:44
(permalink)
michael diemer
Another way to change the value of note durations: Use the length feature under Processes. Figure out what percentage will give you the new value. For example, an eighth note is half as long as a quarter note. So increase the eighth notes by 150%. you can lasso as many eighth notes as you have, and then change them all instantly this way. Note: make sure you uncheck the "start times" box, or you will also change when all the notes start! just change the "duration" parameter. (See, staff view does have some uses).
Thanks, Michael, that one is helpful either. However, it seems rather as exploit to me :) Perhaps, there are other clever tricks? See guys, this is yet another indication that Staff View is poorly done.
|
jfcomposer
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 15:55:04
- Location: Nashville
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:16:12
(permalink)
rabeach
+1
it was easier to use 20 years ago. :-)
Speaking of which, Sonar is the only piece of software I've used that actually removed features and made things more difficult with each upgrade. 8.5 was good. Had the note icons and the number keys were bound to the note values too. I was happy with it (relatively speaking) but it didn't support a specific framerate that a director was dead set on using. So to prevent frame drift, I had to upgrade. So I come to X2 and the note icons are gone and the default keybindings with them. Now we have this clunky context menu. So I finally get used to that, and the newest version now requires you to hold down the menu to make it show up. The rest of Sonar moves forward, we get plug ins galore, new channel/bus/mixing whiz bangs, touch support (which I thought was absurd for a pro-oriented DAW, and would bet money that more people using the staff view than touch), and even the PRV gets some love.... but the staff view, nope. I get that we are the minority. I'm not expecting Cake to blow months and months of dev time on it (even though that would be awesome). All I would like to see is that it keeps pace, even slightly, with the rest of the software. Just small improvements each month would be huge. First update, put the note icons back. Second month, give the triplet problem some attention. Third, maybe improve copy/paste within staff view. Just smallish stuff like that. Those small improvements would warrant my subscription alone, nevermind the 40,000 new drum and guitar kits and reverb plugins that I'll never use that get shoved through the dev cycle. I don't want Sonar to be Finale, or Sibelius, or anything close to that. I don't print from Sonar and if I needed to I would buy a program that's good at printing scores. I want Sonar to be a polished environment for writing music with the staff view, and that means slick workflow and tight integration with the other features of the software, not every engraving marking under the sun. Using the cake analogy, I've never seen a cake revert back into batter, but that's exactly what the staff view is doing, slowly but surely. Maybe in the next update they'll take away key changes. But at least we'll have a couple more drum kits, right? /rant
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:29:58
(permalink)
dfp123
I had done some work with the Staff View but ultimately broke down and purchased Sibelius. It didn't seem like the Staff View was a priority, nor was going to be in the near future.
There is a program called Notion which handles scoring ($150). I used that until I grabbed Sibelius (by cross grading).
I would have preferred to keep it all in one app but I was seeing the writing on the wall. Otherwise, Sonar is a fantastic application!
Absolutely! Sibelius would do the job. However, it costs just about what I paid for Sonar X3 Producer, which is a bit high for me, especially considering that I don't need most of Sibelius functions... I think we can definitely expect improved usability from Staff View. I know that this is not the priority - and that's fine! Just make this secondary feature a bit better. Especially, if it takes 20% of efforts to make this feature 80% better.
|
dfp123
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14
- Joined: 2012/01/05 23:31:58
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 15:53:30
(permalink)
-vince-
which is a bit high for me, especially considering that I don't need most of Sibelius functions...
I totally understand. That's why I mentioned Notion which is a lot cheaper ($150) and doesn't have all the functions of Sibelius. A while back they had a deal with Sonar customers, purchase for $79 (I think, my memory is very bad). It may not be the ideal solution, but it may be worth inquiring to see if you can get a deal? Best of luck, this community is fantastic for help and information.
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 16:00:38
(permalink)
jfcomposer
I'm not expecting Cake to blow months and months of dev time on it (even though that would be awesome). All I would like to see is that it keeps pace, even slightly, with the rest of the software.
jfcomposer
I don't want Sonar to be Finale, or Sibelius, or anything close to that. I don't print from Sonar and if I needed to I would buy a program that's good at printing scores. I want Sonar to be a polished environment for writing music with the staff view, and that means slick workflow and tight integration with the other features of the software, not every engraving marking under the sun.
+100500! Very, very right words, my signature comes here as well. I think they (devs) do 2 mistakes: - they live from release to release, instead of evolving from 2-3 versions back - just to keep the right momentum/direction. I suspect most of them don't know what mottos were there 1 season ago. - they try to unify the UI, however, in reality, Sonar is a set of very different applications - and the concept of unified UI may be a wrong idea. Well, at least they could not do it right enough.
|
rabeach
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2703
- Joined: 2004/01/26 14:56:13
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 16:05:51
(permalink)
Finale NotePad 2012 8 staves, exports midi and it is free.
|
-vince-
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 29
- Joined: 2015/01/27 17:32:54
- Status: offline
Re: Staff: from basics and up
2015/01/28 16:07:19
(permalink)
dfp123
I totally understand. That's why I mentioned Notion which is a lot cheaper ($150) and doesn't have all the functions of Sibelius. A while back they had a deal with Sonar customers, purchase for $79 (I think, my memory is very bad). It may not be the ideal solution, but it may be worth inquiring to see if you can get a deal?
Unfortunately, Notion is almost twice more expensive than Sibelius, at least in my country. Quite odd, yes... Oh well, I think there may be online-based app or the like. dfp123
Best of luck, this community is fantastic for help and information.
You guys are awesome indeed!
|