Helpful ReplySOLVED: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of digital mixer due to hidden MIDI loop

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/01/31 09:50:22 (permalink)
einstein36
being a pc technician, I have seen this happen quite often, esp. with laptops that don't have the power to fully power the usb ports and was wondering, this usb hub you said you are using, is it passive or powered.....if you are using a passive hub(not powered by a actual ac adapter) then I would suggest swiping it out to a powered usb hub.
It sounds like to me, the mixer is not getting enough juice to stay powered up through the usb and by what Robert said, try plugging it into a usb 3.0 which has more of a power output than the older speced usb 2.0 and below....
I hope this helps...
 



I reckon you finally pointed me to a weak spot in my setup ... that hub of mine is indeed passive and so far I never cared because it worked (and of course, I hadn't deactivated the USB power optimization option, either) ... that I can imagine compromising the stability of the digital mixer ...
 
Action plan:
 1) update all drivers => DONE
 2) disable USB power optimization => DONE
 3) get a powered hub
 4) get a UPS
 5) test, test, test in various places ...
 6) pray for it to work
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2015/02/01 06:42:19

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/01/31 13:01:25 (permalink)
I just ran out of time : disable USB power optimization => DONE      Perfect your well on your way !
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/11 14:14:37 (permalink)
of all "strange" behaviours I have encountered, this is definitely the strangest ... and it just returned - thank god, not at a venue but back home where it is a "controlled" environment and fully reproducible ...
 
hence, ...
  • definitely no power issue
  • all measures discussed above are implemented (active USB hub, power saving options off, all latest drivers & firmware)
the good thing is that it is totally reproducible, yet I'm running out of ideas what to try ...
  • about EXACTLY one minute into playback, something happens in the OS (win 8.1) that causes the X32 digital mixer which is connected via USB to reboot (crashes with message "target.cpp: 94") - it's always at the same measure + beat (25:04:something)
  • if I start playback at a later point in the song, it happens after the same elapsed time period ...
  • if I stop playback before e.g. at 20:xx:xx, RTZ and start again, it happens at about measure 5 ... same elapsed time ...
  • hence it's not a problem of the Sonar project ...
  • it's not a latency issue, either. "latencymon" reports low latency at all times and does not show anything su****ious, also not during the critical "time" period in the song ...
 
what makes it really strange ...
  • it has happened almost 2 months ago, then was not reproducible when trying to figure and now it's back ...
  • in the periods between it worked just fine
  • what's common to both events is that win 8.1 reported that a windows update would be available, which I did not allow it to install because I don't want my system changed a day before an event ... but how could that possibly be affecting it???
  • something is happening in the background, there is a small spike in the task manager CPU performance (going from flat 5% to 12% when it happens - yet I have no idea which service is actually causing this. how could it track that down???)
BTW, ...
  • the DAW is offline
  • there are 4 warnings and 1 info in the event viewer at the exact time when X32 reboot is triggered (see next post)
Any idea on how to track this down is highly appreciated!!!
 
Thanks a lot in advance.
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2015/03/11 17:26:40

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/11 17:25:25 (permalink)
Information        11/03/2015 21:34:44        DeviceSetupManager    112         Keine
Warning               11/03/2015 21:34:44        DeviceSetupManager    201         Keine
Warning               11/03/2015 21:34:44        DeviceSetupManager    202         Keine
Warning               11/03/2015 21:34:44        DeviceSetupManager    200         Keine
Warning               11/03/2015 21:34:44        DeviceSetupManager    202         Keine
 
 
Protokollname: Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin
Quelle:        Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager
Datum:         11/03/2015 21:34:44
Ereignis-ID:   112
Ebene:         Informationen
Beschreibung:
Das Gerät "X-USB" ({A82C5089-1B32-5875-881A-FBC26DD004A2}) wurde verarbeitet. Verarbeitete Aufgaben: 4. Geschriebene Eigenschaften: 0. Aktive Arbeitszeit: 2 Millisekunden.
Ereignis-XML:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager" Guid="{FCBB06BB-6A2A-46E3-ABAA-246CB4E508B2}" />
    <EventID>112</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>4</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x4000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2015-03-11T20:34:44.800075200Z" />
    <EventRecordID>85122</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation />
    <Execution ProcessID="1016" ThreadID="3820" />
    <Channel>Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin</Channel>
    <Computer>CuEnSoTablet</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data Name="Prop_DeviceName">X-USB</Data>
    <Data Name="Prop_ContainerId">{A82C5089-1B32-5875-881A-FBC26DD004A2}</Data>
    <Data Name="Prop_TaskCount">4</Data>
    <Data Name="Prop_PropertyCount">0</Data>
    <Data Name="Prop_WorkTime_MilliSeconds">2</Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>
 
Protokollname: Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin
Quelle:        Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager
Datum:         11/03/2015 21:34:44
Ereignis-ID:   201
Ebene:         Warnung
Beschreibung:
Eine Verbindung mit Windows Metadata and Internet Services (WMIS) konnte nicht hergestellt werden.
Ereignis-XML:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager" Guid="{FCBB06BB-6A2A-46E3-ABAA-246CB4E508B2}" />
    <EventID>201</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x4000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2015-03-11T20:34:44.799075700Z" />
    <EventRecordID>85121</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation />
    <Execution ProcessID="1016" ThreadID="3820" />
    <Channel>Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin</Channel>
    <Computer>CuEnSoTablet</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <EventData>
  </EventData>
</Event>
 
Protokollname: Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin
Quelle:        Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager
Datum:         11/03/2015 21:34:44
Ereignis-ID:   202
Ebene:         Warnung
Beschreibung:
Vom Netzwerklisten-Manager wird eine fehlende Internetkonnektivität gemeldet.
Ereignis-XML:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager" Guid="{FCBB06BB-6A2A-46E3-ABAA-246CB4E508B2}" />
    <EventID>202</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x4000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2015-03-11T20:34:44.799075700Z" />
    <EventRecordID>85120</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation />
    <Execution ProcessID="1016" ThreadID="3820" />
    <Channel>Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin</Channel>
    <Computer>CuEnSoTablet</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <EventData>
  </EventData>
</Event>
 
Protokollname: Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin
Quelle:        Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager
Datum:         11/03/2015 21:34:44
Ereignis-ID:   200
Ebene:         Warnung
Beschreibung:
Es konnte keine Verbindung mit dem Windows Update-Dienst hergestellt werden.
Ereignis-XML:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager" Guid="{FCBB06BB-6A2A-46E3-ABAA-246CB4E508B2}" />
    <EventID>200</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x4000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2015-03-11T20:34:44.798073900Z" />
    <EventRecordID>85119</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation />
    <Execution ProcessID="1016" ThreadID="3820" />
    <Channel>Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin</Channel>
    <Computer>CuEnSoTablet</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <EventData>
  </EventData>
</Event>
 
Protokollname: Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin
Quelle:        Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager
Datum:         11/03/2015 21:34:44
Ereignis-ID:   202
Ebene:         Warnung
Beschreibung:
Vom Netzwerklisten-Manager wird eine fehlende Internetkonnektivität gemeldet.
Ereignis-XML:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager" Guid="{FCBB06BB-6A2A-46E3-ABAA-246CB4E508B2}" />
    <EventID>202</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x4000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2015-03-11T20:34:44.798073900Z" />
    <EventRecordID>85118</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation />
    <Execution ProcessID="1016" ThreadID="3820" />
    <Channel>Microsoft-Windows-DeviceSetupManager/Admin</Channel>
    <Computer>CuEnSoTablet</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <EventData>
  </EventData>
</Event>
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2015/03/11 17:41:06

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#34
robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/11 21:04:32 (permalink)
Is there any possible chance some scheduled task is running periodically?
 
(Sorry I was so far off on my earlier post - I was reading in a hurry and feel like a complete dope - DOH!).
 
Rereading things, it sure looked like some sort of power issue - I have had instances where there was just REALLY CRAPPY stage power - Our singer got SOOOO peeved that night.
 
But then I see you have had issues even in a controlled setting, so I am just wondering if there isn't some sort of background service that kicks off - could some plugin possibly be hard-wired to check the web for some reason and somehow cause a problem?
 
I am really reaching for something for you - but I just don't know what else to point you at - sorry.
 
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#35
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/11 21:55:34 (permalink)
The event codes may relate to Windows looking for updates when there is no internet connectivity.
Google on e.g. event ID 202 devicesetup. How it relates to the reboot I dunno.
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/11 23:06:29 (permalink)
Myself I would certainly disable windows update. I always have it disabled on my DAW. I then will manually check when I have a chance and let it do it's thing. I disable anything that involves phoning home. Even if your offline those pesky automatic updates for all software are bad news for DAW. 
But somehow this seems like if you run Latency Mon then it should tell you what is causing DPCL issues. Make sure to keep it running while you test Sonar. 

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 02:52:17 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
Is there any possible chance some scheduled task is running periodically?




To me it looks like that ... because it happens exactly one minute after starting playback ... like a driver stopped working and is restarted ... but which one ???
 
I suspect(ed) windows update or WiFi but deactivating either does not make a difference ...
 
Now, I googled those event messages listed above. They all originate from "Device Setup Manager - Windows 8 Service (Enables the detection, download and installation of device-related software. If this service is disabled, devices may be configured with outdated software, and may not work correctly.)"
 
If I deactivate this service, the event log messages go away - but the problem is still there at exactly the same point in time ... only now there is not a single message written to the event log near the critical time ... which leaves me even more clueless than before

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 03:33:55 (permalink)
I am not familiar with Win8.1 at all, but Win7 has those pesky "reminder" pop-ups that keep going like the energizer bunny once they start themselves.
 
I am sort of wondering if this is a flag internal to Windows to check for its "expected" monthly update, even though you are not online. Most Windows updates are non-invasive, and I have only had a couple over the years that I intentionally backed out of. More speculation here, but you definitely have one of the freakiest issues ever.
 
Based on your concerns with an update, an option is to create a system restore point manually, then put the computer online and let it update (manually run Windows Update). If anything goes amiss, you can 1) either restore manually or 2) uninstall the update from the updater utility. If you do need to back out of an update, you can also tell that updater to ignore it in the future.
 
If this truly is the updater itself, it is incredibly odd that more folks haven't seen it though.

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 07:51:43 (permalink)
Hello,
 
Per the Acer description: Shortened not your exact model but a W700 in general.
 
My focus is on the USB port.. Which is USB 3.  There are documented issues with USB 2 devices(drivers) accessing these ports . Maybe something else to consider. IHTH....

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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 12:10:26 (permalink)
Have you run Latency Mon with Sonar running? I should document what caused the issue.. 

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 12:38:20 (permalink)
Hi. Thanks for participating in chasing the weirdest problem of the year (even though it's only March)
 
Cactus Music
Have you run Latency Mon with Sonar running? I should document what caused the issue.. 




Yes. I did it several times, but it absolutely does not show anything unusual when run with Sonar ... latency is low. Latency mon reports USB as the most often accessed driver and reports low latency (<8µs if I remember right ... I checked yesterday so can't remember the actual number but definitely in the expected range) with no changes when the "funny" problem occurs ...
 
I meanwhile also tried disabling everything from auto-start ... then almost any service that's not absolutely needed ... but the problem persists ...
 
I also set win8 to ignore all 33 windows updates which it meanwhile detected since last update on Feb 25 and which it recommends installing ... no difference ...
 
So, next is now setting a restore point and going for the update (as I've run out of other ideas to check) ... but if that fixes it, it's no longer reproducible and I really want to track that issue down to be sure I understand what's causing it to avoid it for good ...
 

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#42
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 13:35:08 (permalink)
my next question(and I don't remember if you said you have tried this, damn CRS), but have you tried a windows 7 computer hooked up to the mixer.....might be just something totally OS 8 related that it hates the mixer usb connection as to windows 7 is very stable.
You might even try windows 10 if you want to go down that route to see if the future upcoming OS does the same thing........
 

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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/12 14:08:15 (permalink)
einstein36
my next question(and I don't remember if you said you have tried this, damn CRS), but have you tried a windows 7 computer hooked up to the mixer.....might be just something totally OS 8 related that it hates the mixer usb connection as to windows 7 is very stable.
You might even try windows 10 if you want to go down that route to see if the future upcoming OS does the same thing........
 



yes. indeed we tried win7 at the live gig back in Jan when the problem first reared its ugly head ... when we eventually hooked up the backup DAW (which is win7 64 bit with updates only 3 times a year) it worked like charm ... showing that it's (probably) not a power supply problem and (probably) not a X32 firmware issue
 
I think this is something odd in win8.1 (and maybe also the firmware as this should not crash no matter what is send via USB) ...
 
Personally, I'd love to downgrade to win7 64 bit as I really don't need the touch capability which I originally bought the tablet for (but win7 is no longer sold??) and win10 ... I don't know ... don't feel like being an early adopter there after this experience ...
 
 

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#44
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 02:45:58 (permalink)
The mystery saga continues ...
 
I ran win 8.1 update and allowed it to install all 32 pending updates. No change of situation. Still X32 reboot exactly after one minute of Sonar playback.
 
The project is really simple (6-8 audio tracks feeding mono channels of the mixer), reducing it to 2 (i.e. 1 stereo pair) still causes X32 crash at same time. Same with the other projects in the play list.
 
BUT - windows media players plays any stereo file without problems ... don't know if I mentioned that yet ...
 
What else could I try? Sonar Braintree is one option, rolling back to X32 firmware 2.8 (which I don't want to because it's likely to cause some issues with the stored mixer scenes) ...???
 
 

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#45
robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 03:32:37 (permalink)
It sounds like you have your Windows Default Audio Device set to be your audio interface.  If this is true then there could be a conflict between Sonar and Windows both fighting over access to the ASIO drivers of the audio interface.
 
Just for grins, try setting your Windows Default Audio Device to anything other than your audio interface, then test everything out again and post back.
 
Thanks - should be an easy and quick test of the above, 
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
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#46
robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 03:36:43 (permalink)
I also found that I had to apply a driver update to my audio interface at some point after I had transitioned to 8.1 - meaning that some sort of post-8.1 update caused problems with my audio interface drivers, for about a week, and I felt quite fortunate that a driver update was so quickly released to address the problems.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
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Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#47
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 11:07:17 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
It sounds like you have your Windows Default Audio Device set to be your audio interface.  If this is true then there could be a conflict between Sonar and Windows both fighting over access to the ASIO drivers of the audio interface.
 
Just for grins, try setting your Windows Default Audio Device to anything other than your audio interface, then test everything out again and post back.
 
Thanks - should be an easy and quick test of the above, 
 
Bob Bone
 




Thanks, Bob. I tried that just now but no change. I used onboard soundcard as default as well as completely deactivated it ... I also tried the driver sharing between windows applications option in Sonar prefs ... same thing :-(

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#48
js516
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 12:23:26 (permalink)
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this,( thread is way too long to read through over my lunch break, and I
'm sure I'll miss a few things) but you wrote that the usb cable is 8 meters? That is well beyond the max length of usb 2.0 (16 feet or just under 5 meters, maximum per spec.) and usb 3.0 (10 feet or 3 meters, "recommended" per spec. ). Are you using an active cable? If not, chances are that if the ac voltage is sub par plus an excessive voltage drop across an over-length usb cable coupled with rf noise, will cause usb errors. Switching to the other pc may have worked because the backup may have better usb power , a better PSU, or provide better shielding. In anycase an 8 meter passive USB cable is asking for trouble.

Try a shorter usb run if possible or use an active usb cable repeater.
post edited by js516 - 2015/03/13 12:54:52

Joe Sera
 
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#49
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 16:18:51 (permalink)
js516
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this,( thread is way too long to read through over my lunch break, and I
'm sure I'll miss a few things) but you wrote that the usb cable is 8 meters? That is well beyond the max length of usb 2.0 (16 feet or just under 5 meters, maximum per spec.) and usb 3.0 (10 feet or 3 meters, "recommended" per spec. ). Are you using an active cable? If not, chances are that if the ac voltage is sub par plus an excessive voltage drop across an over-length usb cable coupled with rf noise, will cause usb errors. Switching to the other pc may have worked because the backup may have better usb power , a better PSU, or provide better shielding. In anycase an 8 meter passive USB cable is asking for trouble.

Try a shorter usb run if possible or use an active usb cable repeater.



Hi. Thanks. The thead is really running long ... yeah, but the USB cable is active (actually it got a build-in repeater), and the same problem happens also with a short 1.5 m cable (that was actually one of the first things we tried when we first encoutered the issue).
 
So, definitely the most puzzling about the problem is that it happens exactly one minute after hitting play in Sonar and it happens across Sonar projects (all projects I tried), irrespective of the actual load (i.e. only sending two mono channels is already enough)

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#50
LunaTech
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 19:08:56 (permalink)
Hello,
 
Was it mentioned that this occurs outside of Sonar.  Say same setup with a different software package (trial maybe) to see if it is consistent with the type a streaming that a DAW Does. 

"Life could capture me with songs of innocence...
And enrapture me with pleasures galore...
Suddenly it could all quickly fade away...
But I'm not surprised any more...."

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"When He is all you have, He is everything you need"
#51
StarTekh
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 22:15:33 (permalink)
FreeFly : I see firewire drivers , at this point I would consider getting the firewire card ..Im going to pass this by the canadain dealer/support ..see what they come up with !
#52
StarTekh
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/13 23:01:49 (permalink)
FreeFly : the more I read the more is see the usb used for transfer/storage...I would get the Firewire running BTW you have to manualy invoke it in win8  see you use TI firewirecard...Im supprised its still a issue and you didnt try this option
 
#53
robert_e_bone
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/14 15:10:43 (permalink)
Any chance you are plugged into a USB 3 port on the computer?  Some audio interfaces exhibit strange behavior if they are engineered or drivers written for use via a USB 2 port.
 
And - reaching - do your sample rates match between Sonar and the audio interface?
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#54
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/15 09:07:10 (permalink)
 
robert_e_bone
do your sample rates match between Sonar and the audio interface?

 
Yes. Definitely correct settings. You wouldn't get a minute of playback with wrong sampe rate settings ...
 
 
robert_e_bone
Any chance you are plugged into a USB 3 port on the computer?  Some audio interfaces exhibit strange behavior if they are engineered or drivers written for use via a USB 2 port.

 
Yes, but there is only one physical USB port available and that piece of junk ... any chance I can downgrade that to USB???
 
I wouldn't have started using this tiny but relatively powerful machine if it hadn't worked so well for months ... so this turns into some sort of engineering crusade for me.
 
How can something work flawlessly over extended periods with heavy use ... and then just stop and no real explanation/solution can be found??
 
No hardware changes. No firmware upgrades. All music production related software tools unchanged. Sonar projects unchanged, ... which leaves IMHO only win 8.1 and its constant need to be updated as the source ...
 
I'm curious whether I'll get any sensible reply from Behringer on that matter??? For now I think I can only wait and see if they address or at least explain this ...
 
So the only idea I have left to fix the situation involves a gallon of petrol and matches ... but I reckon I should install a few more win 8.1 updates otherwise da d**n thing may not even burn ...

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#55
js516
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/15 10:37:15 (permalink)
It is very likely that a windows upgrade broke you. One broke me last week. 3rd party tray apps (in my case tranzport, contour shuttle and the korg usb driver loader) that loads at startup which were installed in system32 were no longer loading for me. I had to move those system tray applications under program files and fix thier registry entries to point to the new locations to get them working again.

So a Windows update get definitely screw things up. :(

Joe Sera
 
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#56
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/16 13:52:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/03/16 16:37:09
I can't believe it but I found it !!!!!!! Yeah !!!!
 
Pure coincidence, though ...
 
I was once more testing whether a UPS would help (which of course it did not), but noticed that the X32 digi mixer display starts to behave funny a few seconds before the X32 reboot happens ... so I tried fiddling with X32 mixer rotaries in that period and found it very slow responding as if it would be processing a lot of stuff ... and wondered how that can be???
 
hmmm ... the only time I had seen that before was when I had a MIDI loop going and so I started looking inside Sonar and found that somehow the default option to "Always echo current MIDI track" has turned on (which is totally strange because I hate that option and have it off ALWAYS) ... anyway, what makes it even stranger: the "current" track, which was set to auto echo MIDI, actually was a hidden + muted + archived MIDI track (hence I had never seen that, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhh!!!) which contains a single prg chg instruction (well, but that's muted and archived,right???)
 
So with that "Always echo current MIDI track" it must have received some MIDI messages from the X32 and echoed it back out (no clue what that could be ... I only have a single 1 in there per scene to change external FX once at song start) ... until it must have been enough to fill up some memory/buffer in the X32 and BOOOM !!! reboot ...
 
So this is 100% reproducible and I'm sure if Behringer RnD looks into target.cpp, line 94 this will have something to do with memory allocated to MIDI messages ...
 
Neither Sonar nor X32 seems to have any sort of MIDI loop detection, which is strange, especially if the consequence on the X32 side is a crash!!!

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#57
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/16 13:59:40 (permalink)
Is there a keyboard short cut (or even MIDI msg) which I may have hit by mistake that could turn  "Always echo current MIDI track" on and off ... ???
 
I really have no clue how that got activated and turned off and reactivated (because I had this problem in January, then it disappeared and last week it was back) ...

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#58
mettelus
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/16 16:44:38 (permalink)
Wow, I am glad you found this! I had a similar issue with GR5 a long time ago where program changes were occurring at the end of a sandbox project that had been pulled forward through several versions of SONAR. The answer to that one was similar in that GR5 would run MIDI data down the other channel and apparently had captured write automation while I was flipping programs on playback one day. Took a lot of digging to find that one.
 
I am certainly no MIDI guru, so no idea of messages to enable/disable this on the fly, but is "perhaps" capture in read/write automation (how mine was caught). I am curious to the answer to this as well.
 
Didn't you say this was occurring with WMP as well though? I am really confused how that would trigger (I thought exported audio only contained audio). I may have misread that post when you were troubleshooting.
post edited by mettelus - 2015/03/16 16:51:02

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#59
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar X3e used LIVE causes reboots of audio interface / digital mixer 2015/03/17 02:12:50 (permalink)
mettelus
Didn't you say this was occurring with WMP as well though? I am really confused how that would trigger (I thought exported audio only contained audio). I may have misread that post when you were troubleshooting.




No ... actually I had tried to explain that WMP did not cause a crash with stereo output while Sonar sending 2 channes did ... st*pid me could have spotted earlier that MIDI is one of the differences between MWP and Sonar ... but it's always easier in hindsight ...

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DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600
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#60
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