Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on renewal

As a long time user of Sonar regularly building up from Home Studio 6 years ago, to Studio 8, and now to Sonar Platinum, I long ago looked into a better drum system then SI-Studio Drummer, and considered Additive Drums to be rather expensive and very limited in expandability, they had name brand gear and decent quality. As a past drummer having access to more is always better and after considerable investigation decided to buy into the BFD system. A high quality, name brand, less expensive system, with nearly unlimited drums to add. At this present time I have some 67 Drums kits & over 1,675 loadable kit pieces for BFD3, against 6 - ADII kits & a couple of extra pieces, ADII only wants to sell you single drums for $10. each or kits for $100+, for $149 you get 7 drum kits in each (Deluxe, or Eldorado) in an expansion pack for BFD3 and on 50% off sales $75. vs 33% off a single ADII kit for $66. each, never mind that you can get the drum kits of some very famous Bands with the real drummer actually generating the hits, people like 'Nick Mason from Pink Floyd'. I feel I'm not alone on this, as it was first $100 to upgrade, then $149, & now ongoing $199/year. You are THE - DAW, not a sub-retailer for ADII drums. I agonized over going with Professional due the the waste of the drum kits, but for the $49 could justify it for the couple of additional processors.  I own Nomad Factory Integral Studio III ver.5, so the BT pack was of no value to me. How about including more Mastering processors, Sonar haven't introduced any since the LQ & LP 64's, way back, Blue Tubes is fine but RETRO. I see you advertizing some new high end mastering effects Just IN, how about including some of them for our $199. or some additional Prochannel units on renewal instead of another $350. in wasted drum kits.
 
I see Cakewalk Sound Center is still 32 bit, let's get some more of your existing units up to 64 bit as an upgrade.
 
You have a great DAW interface with Professional grade - stay the leader. 
 
WiLLi & MMX3P*
Sonar Platinum Owner
West Coast BC, Canada
 
(* the MMX3P MusicMachine was conceived & constructed by myself, it has 11 input MIDI devices, including a Roland synth, in a 3-sided arrangement flanked with 2 triple tier keyboard racks and center console with twin video monitors, Audio supplied by a Scarlet 18i20 driving 10 monitors, with 6 mic's, & DJ-TT, just in case. Sonar Platinum supplies the DAW engine in My OWN Custom designed system driven by a - Quad 3.4  processor & 16Gb x1600bus mem & 5.140Tb storage. Other major software - Sampletank 3 with a 20,000+ sound library, Amplitube 3 complete + $400 extra gear, - for guitar. The MMX3P has over 50 plug-in instruments not including Sonars, and 200+ effects processors such as; Waves - Tony Maserati Signature collection, IK Multimedia TRacK-3 System, and Magma. Fully Operational & Playable by One - recording in full MIDI 24/96 with multi, multi, overdubs, then on to master down.)
 
Don't be a 'Looper' - PLAY it MANN!
WiLLi

I tend to agree with Jeff...
AD2 was NOT a factor in my immediate upgrade the moment I got the invite... but it was a wonderful bonus.  As I don't have BFD, it's fantastic for free, although I tend to gravitate to quicker/cinematics like Damage, DM-307, Storm Drums, and the like... I'm lazy on the drum side...
 
For a basic platform offering a collection of reasonable drums, especially for average users with limited funds, AD2 is fantastic and I've really begun to invest a bit of time in actually building drums in some new material... wouldn't have otherwise. If the bakers could just include a real drummer, like my brother was before leaving this realm, I'd REALLY be stoked!
 
Personally, I don't see how they offer all this stuff plus enhancements and make a profit. And while I see your point about maybe lowering costs if they weren't making these deals, they are trying to grow their market and this is one way to do it! AD2 is way better than their earlier drums...
 
 

Oh, Tom... I've crashed it several times... I'm good at doing stupid things like playing an mp3 or wave mixdown or YouTube thru my Forte and forgetting to disable it before going back to Sonar... I'm good at Stupid!
 
Yea, miss my bro... awesome drummer... can't imagine doing what he'd do in a minute if I took a month! 

There is nothing in the AD drums for me, too.  I do mostly classic country, western swing, etc.  Its all for other genres of music.  If I worked hard at it, I may be able to adapt one or two, but I shouldn't have to do that. 
 
My old Alesis SR-16, program 31A is still my go to for classic country. 

Leadfoot
I'm a fellow BFD3 owner, too. AD had no impact on my decision to upgrade. I never even downloaded it. No need. But I also feel that the upgrade price for Platinum is fair, even if AD wasn't included.

Same here (w/o the BFD).  I don't care for AD1/2, as well as their licensing method etc.  I have no idea what part of the $$ AD2 is, and as said - I still think Plat is a great deal.   Only CW knows the cost in terms of the percentage or what the "cost" is - if it IS substantial though, I would definitely be in the camp of voting to spend it on something else.  Not that this is a democracy - just my customer input.

fireberd
There is nothing in the AD drums for me, too.  I do mostly classic country, western swing, etc.  Its all for other genres of music. 

Same situation here. In bluegrass, the upright bass is the kick and the mandolin takes the place of the snare. So drums are a non-issue for me.

jih64
Yes nothing beats a 'real' drummer, but an Electronic Drum kit with your Drum plug of choice goes along way to making 'certain' things a lot easier to attain, as apposed to pure programing, not to mention a lot more fun, or a bit less fun, using professionally played drum grooves, midi tracks and altering them to taste, but still you can't beat the real thing I guess, with a 'real' drummer that is ;).

If you're into rock, I've yet to find a better way to lay down drum parts than the Discrete Drums libraries. They're long loops played by really good drummers, and recorded very neutrally so you can tweak the sound as you want. Drummers who hear my music are sure that I'm using a real drummer . In a way, I am.
 
I do feel BFD is outstanding and AD is no slouch, same with the NI Komplete kits etc., but nothing beats a real drummer - even if he's been "freeze-dried" into loops.

 
........ but nothing beats a real drummer .......

I used to think this way, but I only think that's the case if you're trying to fake people out with your drum programming and it's really an important ingredient to making your music sound good (and appeal to others??).
 
This is coming from a 61 yr old rocker that has seen the changes over the years.  I say move on, embrace something new, or else you'll always be surrounded by a set of restrictive rules.

I just want to "slap" our kid drummer at church, who REFUSES to even embrace new drum technology, because it doesn't have the "feel" and continues to play on the church's horrible sounding $150 kit, stuck in an "aquarium", poorly mic'd.  But it's *church* and you're not supposed to slap people!  ;-D

Anderton

mixmkr

 
........ but nothing beats a real drummer .......

I used to think this way, but I only think that's the case if you're trying to fake people out with your drum programming and it's really an important ingredient to making your music sound good (and appeal to others??).

I think it depends a lot on the genre. If you're doing rock, it has a certain "sound." But if you're doing techno, then a human drummer is the wrong choice if only because it won't be possible to maintain the all-important metronomic beat.
 
There's also some crossover. I thought Drum 'n' Bass demanded electronic drums, but heard a human drummer playing DnB once and he added a whole different flavor. It was a cool alternative. Personally, the best part about playing with a human drummer has less to do with the sound, and more to do with the interaction. One of the things I like about the Discrete Drums libraries is they have lots of options so you can slice and dice the part into something that does sound like it's interacting to some degree.
 
 

The interaction can be a huge ingredient.  There's crossovers happening everywhere.  Think Def Lepard.  But I'm pretty sure we're on the same page.  I just tend to go for something new...kinda like your approach on your amp models.  Why recreate a Marshall Plexi (among the many already existing...or even a REAL one).  Create an amp model that sounds great.  My Boss GT-100 [floor stomper] takes off in that direction, with their "custom" models.

I really don't like some of the samples in AD. I do metal and hard rock, but the metal pack is a big lack compared to what I have in SD2, SSD4 (to a lesser degree) and my Kontakt libraries, all vastly superior (no pun intended hehe) products. I really don't like any of the toms AD comes with. The snares are alright and I really like the designer Sonor snare. The preset on the Black Velvet demo video was amazing, but AD2 as whole just didn't do it for me. I might give it another try, but right now it's worth it for it to come with Sonar as a starting point maybe for people just getting into recording, but it's obviously not aimed at more experienced users.

mixmkr
But I'm pretty sure we're on the same page. 

Based on your posting history, that's a pretty safe bet 

fireberd
My old Alesis SR-16, program 31A is still my go to for classic country. 

I used a drum kit and percussion kit I constructed in an SR-16 for many years, but as a sound module, the MIDI being programmed via Sonar's step sequencer or Live rather than the SR's dreadful programming interface. The pads started to wear out some time ago and the sockets started to go so to be on the safe side I sampled the sounds I used and loaded the samples into Session Drummer.

That drum machine, or its sounds, is to be found on no end of commercial recordings and for good reason.

I don't use any of the drums included in Sonar.  I always use drum loops (usually Beta Monkey) because I prefer the sound of something recorded by an actual drummer.  It just takes too much time for me to try to create something that I'm happy with.  I wrote and recorded a song this afternoon and doubt I could record a heavy rock song with decent sounding drums in that amount of time otherwise. 

I used to have a Roland TR-707 that I actually liked the kick and snare, and the toms weren't too bad at the time.  Of course the cymbals were to laugh at...but that was quite a while ago when memory was at a premium price.  I remember when one MEG of ram was $100.

TomHelvey
Haha, I feel your pain on AD2. Great stuff but it doesn't really work for the music I'm doing. If I were doing alternative or classic rock, AD2 would probably be my go to plugin for my drum scratch tracks but I would still use a real drummer and a real kit for any kind of release in those genres. It's a PITA to try to do much more than dynamics with any drum plugin, a real drummer can nail that stuff without even thinking about it. There are literally a million sounds between the edge and the bell on a ride, no way any plugin is ever going to get close, and that's just one cymbal. Plugins are great for SoundCloud demos though. You'll probably get the most bang from your buck by going for the weirdest stuff XLN makes.
As far as the price hike is concerned, $200 is pretty much the industry standard for the latest and greatest. I haven't crashed Sonar in a while so I'm taking a wait and see attitude.
 
 

On what planet?   Reason upgrades = $129,  Live Standard upgrades = $149, Tracktion upgrade = $29, FL Studio = FREE,  Reaper = $40.  From Sweetwater, Studio One Artist to Pro = $99.
 As for Sonar I've never paid over $149.  I bought the pre release.
 
 I thought the "As far as the price hike is concerned, $200 is pretty much the industry standard for the latest and greatest" is something a developer would say to justify the price of an upgrade.  
 
 Sometimes if something works great it's hard to get other to upgrade. Think XP and W7.  That's the same with DAWs so you have to throw something in to sway them.
 
 I keep saying this is my last version of Sonar.  I said that after S5 but somehow made it from S7 to the present. I'm a casual user.  The AD pack swayed me since I have 4 machines and need another license. Plus I like the idea of incremental updates.