Pan Laws

what do you set them for, and why?
 
do you mix in MONO, and then STEREO?
 
what have you discovered about how the choice of PAN LAW effects your mix going from mono to stereo?
 

this has nothing to do with emulators.
think 'more straightfoward and simple'
 

The choice of pan law is almost irrelevant, the exception being when you're doing pan automation on mono tracks. For normal mixing, it doesn't really matter. You'll get accustomed to whatever law you choose and it'll seem natural to you after awhile, so just pick one and stick with it. And of course, if you're using stereo tracks primarily, it's completely irrelevant.
 
To answer the question, I use the 0dB-center law. Why? No particular reason. I had to go look to see what it was set at.

bitflipper
The choice of pan law is almost irrelevant, the exception being when you're doing pan automation on mono tracks. For normal mixing, it doesn't really matter. You'll get accustomed to whatever law you choose and it'll seem natural to you after awhile, so just pick one and stick with it. And of course, if you're using stereo tracks primarily, it's completely irrelevant.
 
To answer the question, I use the 0dB-center law. Why? No particular reason. I had to go look to see what it was set at.

Hey Bit...I was like you only a few weeks ago, then after getting nowhere with a couple of mixes...admittedly I was mixing virtual strings and strings which had already been panned in Notion 3-Notion 3 and Sonar don't play nicely.  But when I did a little investigating I decided to experiment with pan laws and gosh what I heard astounded me.  The stereo image just opened up.
 
Now perhaps I wasn't mixing properly...I will accept that.  But I think pan laws, digital gain structure, fader position=digital resolution and yes even console emulators all interact to create a certain sound.  I'm not describing it well...because I am just theorizing-I'm still of the belief that digital is not fully understood and how all the different bits interact to create a whole sound-much the same as analogue.  Again it took over 50 years for analogue to be fully understood and utilized and for the technology to progress...think Bing Crosby and Les Paul recording in their kitchen with a newly basterdized 4 track tape recorder, to Bohemian Rhapsody, which I believe and could argue academically as the pinnacle of "recording arts" in the 20th century.  i.e. it took 30 years for the technology and the boffins to collide.    
 
But and again these are virtual strings, but none the less I am getting warm and fat mixes that translate very well these days.  I brought a Harmon and Kardon Bluetooth speaker the other day, so not anywhere near fantastic but good enough for a reference and indeed the mix's which I mixed and mastered on my Beyer DTT990's translated beautifully.  Amazed I was and then I knew I had worked out a formula that worked.  Again though this was virtual strings, I'm about to go through catalogue and mix and master everything again with this new knowledge and there is "real" instruments to see if the formula translates across the board.  But and again, the importance of pan law I believe plays an integral part in the formula. 
 
Of course there are of other factors, working out how to best use Perfect Space...the instructions for this plug are terrible- finally understanding how to use virtual tape and console effects-which again I think pan law may play a part-getting digital gain staging right, so rather than using a fader to get the levels right, using the trim and the console emulators trim to set levels.  Much like in analogue.
 
Sorry little off topic.  
 
Ben

batsbrew
i was just curious as to what most people work with...
I WORK ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY with mono tracks.
and i do a LOT of active panning of tracks during mixes,
my mixes are always shifting,
i just like making it hard on myself.
LOL

if i have a stereo track (say, overheads locked together hard left/right) then i leave them alone.

When you set the pan law to -6dB, the theory says that when panning a signal from left to right, you wouldn't have to compensate the level with the fader, but being compensated by the pan-law.
The -6 pan law also is supposed to assure mono compatibility.
but i suppose the "-3dB down in the center" option is the closest to analog mixers?

i know it can make a BIG DIFFERENCE moving from DAW to a different DAW if the pan law is not set up the same.
depending on how you export or import files, it can ruin your mix.

interesting note, from wiki:
"SSL used to employ a 4.5 dB pan rule, because it was believed that their expensive consoles would normally be used in tuned rooms that had acoustic summing capabilities closer to the ideal.
Many consoles that have only one pan rule employ one such that a signal panned hard left or right is at full level and becomes progressively lower in level as the pan is directed to the center."
 
 
 
 
 
i don't know what my current pan law is set for.
damn.
 
i gotta go find out..........
 
more later.
 

Exactly the SSL console employ a -4.5db law...sorry I forget to mention things...skip thinking and doing 5 things at once...hence look it up but because of imperfect rooms.  Again when I changed the pan law, I was amazed that the stereo image went vroom, everything opened up.  There are other factors again...using the pure EQ curve for mastering...shessh, all of a sudden I was sonic sculptor. 
 
I should read manuals more often, I tend to believe that I can work things out by just fiddling...none of us can-its the equivalent of pissing in the wind, in the dark.  Once I sat down and read through all the manuals of the effects I was using...some historical perspective...and my previous 15 years as music technologist I believe I solved a number of issues.  One of the things I did realize, was these are the effects I am going to use...and I have to master them.  And these are the techniques I am going to use and I am going to master them...this included pan laws, digital gain staging and digital resolution.  It probably helps that I am on ADHD medication and I can do 20 hours day, and enjoy pulling things apart.
 
Sorry possibly off topic.  But all discovery is path which we did not mean to go down-unless it's the wild wood and we've been told that the sprits of the trees are not kind...lol...I'm joking.
 
Ben
 
Oh and that is why I also mentioned EMI REDD consoles, the SSL consoles and their pan law was designed for a specific task.  The REDD pan law was too...it has to do with mono, this actually might help you BB.  I'm not 100% sure but I did a little reading and -6 pan law and The Beatles hard panning of vocals and instruments were because of this, but I did not finish the research, so I might just be pulling various bits out of my memory and not putting back together properly but it might be something worth investigating.  Maybe get a waves REDD emulator, since you like mono and try the -6db pan law to see what happens.  If I had a couple of hundred bucks and didn't have other priorities I would.
 
Cheers Ben

just figured out,
i use -3 constant power
 
 

Jeff Evans
Pan laws do come into effect when you are transferring a whole mix from DAW A to DAW B.  Faders can be easily matched but pan settings are more about setting by eye in combination with correct pan law.
 
How things pan and how well the phantom image smoothly moves across is very dependent on correct distance apart for your monitors, in relation to you.

This might indeed be an issue.
 
 
But aside from that, the truth is there is no magic here - a pan pot just adds a certain amount of gain to each channel based on it's position. Different pan laws just control how much gain gets added at any given position.
 
So for any fixed pan position you can always get identical results through a combination of pan position and fader adjustment regardless of the pan law being used. Period.
 
Where it makes a difference is when you move the pan pot. As Bit said, if you're automating panning this makes a difference. Or like Jeff seemed to be getting at, if when mixing it doesn't seem to move naturally when you're trying to place something, or if you have to adjust the fader afterwards every time you change the pan position.

Guitarhacker
There's laws for this? ...........
I hope that's what you're discussing.

 
no, this is a whole 'nuther thing.
everyone should understand this,
ESPECIALLY if you do collabs.
 

I think the only lime I bothered to adjust a Pan Law was for Adobe audition which just lowers the level of everything on the output when the pan is centered, screwing up the loudness of pre-recorded material.    I keep it at 0 centered. 
 
For all other DAW's -3db center sounds fine and consistent to me, I rarely need to adjust volume when panning mono tracks.   What I usually do it set the volume close, adjust the position where I want it, and then fine tune the levels.  If the position of the track is stationary and you are not switching DAWs with different setting, I would argue pan law doesn't really matter.