michael diemer
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How I Use Staff View
As a longtime Sonar user (came aboard in the late 90's, I wanted to share how I use Staff View, in light of a recent discussion about improving it.
First of all, I use SV almost exclusively. I also use Events and Track view some, but not PRV. My compositions are midi mockups, done just for fun. You could say I really am a notation composer, who uses Sonar instead of say Sibelius, because the sound is so much better.
So, how have I overcome the limitations of Sonar's SV? I make two versions of my works, a sound version and a print version. In the print version, I use standard abbreviations, like "tr....." to indicate a trill. (The sound version will of course have every note written out, so the abbreviation saves a of of space). For groupings like septuplets, I write in by hand after printing the score the proper notation. I put a bunch of other stuff in by hand as well.
One of the biggest limitations of the Sonar score when printed, is that every instrument is on every page, whether playing or not. This wastes a ton of space, and makes the score a lot longer than it should be. Now, to make the score more professional, I could physically scan it into a notation program, work on it there, and reprint it. I have not done this as of yet, as I only print the score so I have a hard copy of the music in addition to the music files. But you could do this as a way to produce at least semi-professional scores. Scanning the score into a notation program is thus a potential workaround in the absence of any other way to get it into notation software. But it would of course be so much easier if you could export it somehow directly. I don't really know what XML files are, but I see them mentioned a lot. Scanning may be a way to get around this at present.
The beauty of sonar is that there are so many ways to do things, so many wonderful tools at your disposal. and it is very intuitive. I have tried Cubase and Ableton, and don't care for them. Reaper has a reputation of not being intuitive. So I plan to stay with sonar. I may even upgrade at some point (currently using 8.5). My hope is that at some point Cakewalk will make some improvements to SV. but at least I have found I can use it effectively as it is. Hopefully this thread will help others do the same.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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jsg
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Re: How I Use Staff View
2015/02/02 18:02:55
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michael diemer
As a longtime Sonar user (came aboard in the late 90's, I wanted to share how I use Staff View, in light of a recent discussion about improving it.
First of all, I use SV almost exclusively. I also use Events and Track view some, but not PRV. My compositions are midi mockups, done just for fun. You could say I really am a notation composer, who uses Sonar instead of say Sibelius, because the sound is so much better.
So, how have I overcome the limitations of Sonar's SV? I make two versions of my works, a sound version and a print version. In the print version, I use standard abbreviations, like "tr....." to indicate a trill. (The sound version will of course have every note written out, so the abbreviation saves a of of space). For groupings like septuplets, I write in by hand after printing the score the proper notation. I put a bunch of other stuff in by hand as well.
One of the biggest limitations of the Sonar score when printed, is that every instrument is on every page, whether playing or not. This wastes a ton of space, and makes the score a lot longer than it should be. Now, to make the score more professional, I could physically scan it into a notation program, work on it there, and reprint it. I have not done this as of yet, as I only print the score so I have a hard copy of the music in addition to the music files. But you could do this as a way to produce at least semi-professional scores. Scanning the score into a notation program is thus a potential workaround in the absence of any other way to get it into notation software. But it would of course be so much easier if you could export it somehow directly. I don't really know what XML files are, but I see them mentioned a lot. Scanning may be a way to get around this at present.
The beauty of sonar is that there are so many ways to do things, so many wonderful tools at your disposal. and it is very intuitive. I have tried Cubase and Ableton, and don't care for them. Reaper has a reputation of not being intuitive. So I plan to stay with sonar. I may even upgrade at some point (currently using 8.5). My hope is that at some point Cakewalk will make some improvements to SV. but at least I have found I can use it effectively as it is. Hopefully this thread will help others do the same.
There is another way to get it into Sibelius, and, I presume, Finale. If you save the Sonar file as a Type 1 standard MIDI file (SMF), Sibelius will read it and display it. The score will of course need editing, but that's a given. I've done this many, many times. I wouldn't dream of using the staff view (which I have used extensively for decades) to print anything out. I think its true purpose is limited to MIDI inputting and editing. And even with the display problems (tied/dotted triplets, 64th notes) and bugs, it does serve that purpose. Even with the staff view's display limitations, it does, thankfully, play back tied and dotted triplets and 64th notes correctly, and when exporting the MIDI file into Sibelius, Sibelius displays them correctly as well. CW is wrong for not fixing long-standing bugs in staff view and they are wrong for not spending any energy to improve the staff view so that it can display tied and dotted triplets correctly. Since the "X" series, they've also screwed up the snap function--it is usable, but it should work far better than it does. The next version will give us 10 more equalizers, 12 more compressors, 5 more drum plugins and all the other things that they think will sell more copies, but that no accomplished and expert music producer really needs. But fixing the staff view? They say they don't have the resources to do that. Actually, I believe they do, but they don't WANT to fix it. That much is obvious. They get away with it because they can. If they wanted to improve the staff view they would. JG www.jerrygerber.comwww.jerrygerber.com/symphony9.htm
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Bill51
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Re: How I Use Staff View
2015/02/02 18:06:52
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You want to export Music XML from Sonar and import into Finale or Sibelius (or Notion or Overture)
Bill Reed Finale 2012, Notion4, Sonar X2 Win8 x64, 64GB RAM M-Audio ProFire 2626 Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos A closet full of cables, cords, adaptors, etc. Just let me know what you need
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jsg
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Re: How I Use Staff View
2015/02/02 19:11:18
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Bill51
You want to export Music XML from Sonar and import into Finale or Sibelius (or Notion or Overture)
I suggest not doing it that way and instead save as a MIDI file type 1 and open in Sibelius. You'll get every track, including instrument tracks, not just midi tracks, imported.
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michael diemer
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Re: How I Use Staff View
2015/02/02 19:12:50
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jsg
Bill51
You want to export Music XML from Sonar and import into Finale or Sibelius (or Notion or Overture)
I suggest not doing it that way and instead save as a MIDI file type 1 and open in Sibelius. You'll get every track, including instrument tracks, not just midi tracks, imported.
Is this possible in Sonar 8.5?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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jsg
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Re: How I Use Staff View
2015/02/02 20:03:07
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☄ Helpfulby petec 2015/02/04 06:10:22
michael diemer
jsg
Bill51
You want to export Music XML from Sonar and import into Finale or Sibelius (or Notion or Overture)
I suggest not doing it that way and instead save as a MIDI file type 1 and open in Sibelius. You'll get every track, including instrument tracks, not just midi tracks, imported.
Is this possible in Sonar 8.5?
Absolutely. Just save the file (in addition to saving it as a .cwp file, not instead of) as a type 1 .mid file and import it into Sibelius. If any tracks use midi channel 10, change them, as Sibelius will interpret those as percussion tracks, as per General MIDI standard. JG
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