Helpful ReplyLatency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum

Author
deswind
Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 952
  • Joined: 2003/11/23 14:07:13
  • Status: offline
2015/02/04 00:22:15 (permalink)

Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum

X3e is fabulous so I am not sure it can be beat in this department.  But out of curiosity, is anyone experiencing the ability to lower latency for the same project by going to Platinum?
#1
SvenArne
Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2719
  • Joined: 2007/01/31 12:51:29
  • Location: Trondheim, Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 03:08:34 (permalink)
I have a fairly fast computer and an RME interface, so I usually stay at 48 samples ASIO buffer up until the absolute mixing endgame. This worked well for me in X3 but Platinum for me feels even snappier and more solid! I feel SONAR has gotten incrementally smoother and more responsive (more "gapless" if you will) at low latencies with every update the last several versions. 
 
Sven





#2
Mus
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 383
  • Joined: 2003/11/23 12:51:10
  • Location: London, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 07:15:36 (permalink)
I was slightly worried about this as I only have a 1.6GHz i7 laptop.
 
Presumably we still have the option of running X3e if Platinum seems to cry out for a new machine?
 
Thanks!
M

HP DV7 3020EA i7 1.6GHz, 8Gb RAM, 1 x 320Gb 1 x 1Tb 7200 drives, WIN7 64-bit, MOTU UltraLite Mk 3 Hybrid, Sonar Platinum 64-bit
 
www.MurrayWebster.com
www.LondonSongwriters.org - UK Countryside Songwriting Retreats and Workshops
 
#3
rebel007
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 926
  • Joined: 2013/07/17 11:24:29
  • Location: Victoria, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 07:22:06 (permalink)
Yes. X3 will still run as normal if you didn't uninstall it prior to the Platinum upgrade.

Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture
Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired)
CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
#4
Mus
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 383
  • Joined: 2003/11/23 12:51:10
  • Location: London, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 07:31:02 (permalink)
OK thanks. Presumably it still holds true that we shouldn't uninstall old versions? I did that last year and had to spend a week reinstalling Windows and all my music stuff :-( 
 
Cheers
M

HP DV7 3020EA i7 1.6GHz, 8Gb RAM, 1 x 320Gb 1 x 1Tb 7200 drives, WIN7 64-bit, MOTU UltraLite Mk 3 Hybrid, Sonar Platinum 64-bit
 
www.MurrayWebster.com
www.LondonSongwriters.org - UK Countryside Songwriting Retreats and Workshops
 
#5
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 07:37:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/02/06 21:45:41
There shouldn't be any difference in latency. Its really a function of the audio driver and audio interface.

Best
John
#6
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3704
  • Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
  • Location: Inverness, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 08:54:57 (permalink)
I have the same latency in both X3 and Platinum. 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
ISRC Registered
Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
#7
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8124
  • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
  • Location: Missouri - USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 09:06:47 (permalink)
I posted about this a few days ago.  I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but after installing Platinum I'm able to run my Behringer 1204USB interface at 48K/96 samples.  Overall RTL = 7.9.
 
With X3e I couldn't get anywhere near this.  I had even gone back to my Delta66 while researching new interfaces.
 
It's possible that a Windows update somewhere in between made the difference, but the 1204USB driver is definitely the same.
 
I'm still looking for an interface with more I/Os on the USB side and some HI-Z inputs, but the pressure is off.  I'm actually having a hard time nailing down any real-world examples of performance in the price range I'm interested in.

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#8
Splat
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8672
  • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
  • Location: Mars.
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 09:47:17 (permalink)
Apparently there are performance improvements, quite what they are remains a mystery, we will get a change log soon hopefully.

Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
#9
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
  • Total Posts : 6475
  • Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
  • Location: Boston, MA, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 19:52:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/02/06 21:46:05
Any performance improvements can make a difference to latency, since low latency performance is directly a function of how long it takes to process a buffer of audio. i.e. if we improved a section of code that requires it to take less CPU it will potentially improve low latency performance.
 
There were numerous tweaks to the effects processing code in Platinum and some extensive work to reduce dropouts caused by disk access contentions. And we switched to the latest compiler than has some improvements to code optimizations. All these could yield benefits to low latency performance.

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#10
Leadfoot
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2817
  • Joined: 2011/04/26 11:08:38
  • Location: Indiana
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 20:13:21 (permalink)
Nice job Noel! I've noticed some improvement also.Thank you!
#11
Zo
Max Output Level: -25 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5036
  • Joined: 2008/01/25 20:49:55
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 20:54:45 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Any performance improvements can make a difference to latency, since low latency performance is directly a function of how long it takes to process a buffer of audio. i.e. if we improved a section of code that requires it to take less CPU it will potentially improve low latency performance.
 
There were numerous tweaks to the effects processing code in Platinum and some extensive work to reduce dropouts caused by disk access contentions. And we switched to the latest compiler than has some improvements to code optimizations. All these could yield benefits to low latency performance.




 
Noel ...about the disk thing , i have found that inserting a Template of an instruments in X1 is 2 time faster than X3and Platnum ...could you guyz try to give it a look if time allows ...if you find the thing it will certainly help in other areas , i'm pretty usre ;)

For sale  (PM me) : transfert ilok included
Eventide Ultrachannel make offers
Softube Summit EQ
IK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/Lim
EastWest Goshtwriter
Soundforge Pro 12
 
#12
deswind
Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 952
  • Joined: 2003/11/23 14:07:13
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/04 23:55:37 (permalink)
What a great answer!!!! Thanks!!!!!
 
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Any performance improvements can make a difference to latency, since low latency performance is directly a function of how long it takes to process a buffer of audio. i.e. if we improved a section of code that requires it to take less CPU it will potentially improve low latency performance.
 
There were numerous tweaks to the effects processing code in Platinum and some extensive work to reduce dropouts caused by disk access contentions. And we switched to the latest compiler than has some improvements to code optimizations. All these could yield benefits to low latency performance.




#13
musicroom
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2421
  • Joined: 2004/04/26 22:31:02
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/05 16:36:56 (permalink)
Latency appears to be better here as well. Another thing that's impressed me is the greatly reduced load time for VSTi instruments and heavily loaded fx chains. Normally this type of speed increase requires a new PC. Good job underneath the hood Cakewalk!

 
Dave
Songs
___________________________________
Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW  I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM /  RME Babyface



 
 
#14
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8124
  • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
  • Location: Missouri - USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/05 16:39:25 (permalink)
The Platinum coffee mugs are a full 4oz larger than the X3 mugs too!

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#15
richlion821
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 19
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 23:15:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/05 19:11:45 (permalink)
Thanks Noel, I haven't even tried to see if I could lower my ASIO buffers again yet, because with the latest Sonar X3 if I lowered the buffer size to one step lower, I'll get long audio dropouts ticks and pops; at the next higher setting that I've settled on, I only got short random dropouts in the beginning of some songs. I use 2 Delta 1010LT and Win7 Pro to get 16 channels. So far with Sonar Platinum it hasn't missed a peep, and might sound cleaner? So I knew something was done to the audio method, but I'm kind of baffled why it isn't outlined in the what's new, in which I feel is the most important thing to me; the other stuff is just minor. This is what I've been looking for. Keep up the great work. Been here since Cakewalk DOS.   

Homebuilt computer: Arock  Taichi motherboard , 128 GB RAM, Intel i7 6800 @3.6 Ghz. GTX 1070 video card. 2 monitors on a dual vertical stand, MOTU 24AO interface, 2- Behringer ADA8200's; Win 10 Pro. Sonar Platinum. Cakewalk since Cakewalk DOS. Presonus 32.4.2 AI mixer.
 
#16
deswind
Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 952
  • Joined: 2003/11/23 14:07:13
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/05 22:57:25 (permalink)
Good point richlion.  I thought the same thing.  This is very good news and should be a major promo point about the new product.  Congrats - Cakewalk people - this is quite an achievement - because frankly I though X3e was great in this department, and yet they made it better!!!
#17
scottfa
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 453
  • Joined: 2005/04/23 06:25:47
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/06 07:42:31 (permalink)
These are the kinds of improvements that will get me to upgrade. How about that bug fix list to push me over the edge?

Intel I7 2600K (OCed to 4.0)
Gigabyte Ga-Z68X-UD3H-B3
16G Corsair 1600  Memory 4 sticks
1 SSD, 1WD 650 SATA and 1 Samsung 1G SATA    
Steinberg MR816X 
Mackie R800 Adat to the Steinberg
Windows 10 64 bit     
Sonar Platinum Lifetime
UAD-2  Solo
#18
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8124
  • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
  • Location: Missouri - USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/06 08:06:30 (permalink)
"You have to buy it to find out what it is."  Or something like that.  Sounds familiar - LOL!

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#19
Marcus Curtis
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 945
  • Joined: 2007/09/04 22:50:09
  • Location: Tulsa
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/06 09:34:46 (permalink)
deswind
X3e is fabulous so I am not sure it can be beat in this department.  But out of curiosity, is anyone experiencing the ability to lower latency for the same project by going to Platinum?


That is one of the things I noticed right away. I have lower latency with platinum as opposed to X3. I am using the VS-100 as my audio interface. My latency is a little lower now.

http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/  

Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, 

Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10
Midi Controllers=Edirol  PCR 800, roland GR-55.    

Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
 
#20
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14250
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: Latency differences - Sonar X3e versus Platinum 2015/02/06 10:44:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/02/06 21:46:44
I'm afraid Noels's post was not well-worded and might be slightly misleading as a result.
 
Improving processing efficiency could conceivably allow you to reduce your audio buffer size, which would in turn lower overall audio latency. But if you don't proactively change the buffer size, the efficiency gains will just result in lower CPU usage at a given buffer size while latency remains exactly the same. The one area you might see "latency" reduced automatically would be the time between hitting Play and having the transport start running, but this is not what most people mean when they talk about latency.
 
In my experience, most ASIO drivers only allow you to change buffer size by factors of two up and down, so it's unlikely you'd be able to take advantage of say a 10% improvement in efficiency to lower your buffer and still have the same CPU load in a given project. WDM drivers might allow small enough changes to take advantage, but with the inherent variability in CPU load over time, and the need to maintain "headroom" for spikes in the load, this isn't really likely to be feasible, either.
 
The main thing you get from processing efficiency improvements is the ability to run more synth and FX plugins before you have to start freezing things to get the project to run reliably at a given buffer setting.
 
EDIT: If you feel that audio latency has actually been reduced, you're likely just experiencing the Platinucebo Effect. 
post edited by brundlefly - 2015/02/06 11:01:17

SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
#21
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1