Answered[SOLVED] partial clip overlays all the comping lanes

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GregGraves
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2015/02/06 04:07:26 (permalink)

[SOLVED] partial clip overlays all the comping lanes

So I am laying down a bass line in sections because I am having difficulty transposing what is in my head to my uncooperative fingers.  So I set up a loop, say, from bar 10 to bar 20, and do the part over and over until I can do it right.  However, if I am a little slow, because I am playing bass standing up, like you should, I can't hit the spacebar before the next loop around starts.  Now I would think this would simply create a new lane, and on that one lane would be the little piece that represents the time it took me to get to the keyboard.  But it's not.  That little piece is now on EVERY lane.  Huh?  Worse, it destructively overwrites every single take with that little bit.  The reason I am not freaking out is that I always have a 2 bar lead-in to the actual part I am trying to lay down, so the little chunk doesn't wreck my takes, but it does mean I've got to go into every single lane and delete that chunk.  That doesn't seem like a chore, until you realize that the ending part of the song took me 60 takes.  Thus this post.  In any case, THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING.  Is this a bug in X3e?  This is not a fluke, it always happens ... probably because I am doing something wrong?  Maybe.
 
PS: I am using the word "poopy" because if I used the word I am actually using I'd get kicked off the forum.
post edited by GregGraves - 2015/02/07 13:53:01

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#1
Sanderxpander
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 07:05:51 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Anderton 2015/02/06 09:22:12
Comp-recording will always use the last take until you select another one. What this means is that the "little bit" is considered a partial take and it will select that partial as last take, then fill in the rest with the next to last take. In order to do this all the other takes obviously also have to be split. But that's all it is; they're split. Nothing is overwritten and there is no need to delete the bits. Just select the starting bit along with the rest of your favorite take and playback will be seemless.
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brundlefly
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 11:08:12 (permalink)
To expand on Sanderexpander: you can clean up by deleting the last partial take lane, and then swiping through the entire previous take (starting outside the clip) with the Comp tool to "heal" all the splits at once.

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Beepster
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 11:17:01 (permalink)
a) You just have to reset the split using the comp tool (move the split where it should be and it will reveal what was being covered up by your newer take... it will now be audible and in the Parent Track).
 
b) What I do to get rid of those annoying hunks of unwanted take residue is select the top nugget, hold Shift, select the bottom nugget, hit delete. The entire stack of empty/unwanted nuggets go away (non destructively so you can just drag it out again if you cropped it too close).
 
The other way is to Lasso and delete the nuggets (right click to engage the lasso and drag it so it touches all of the unwanted clips, then hit delete. Speeds things up but not as much as a Shift Select... however it's easier to control in case you need to skip certain takes or something).
#4
brundlefly
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 11:23:20 (permalink)
Incidentally. I submitted a feature request once upon a time, asking the Bakers to add a function that automatically throws away that last partial take when it's less then some user-configurable length.

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#5
Beepster
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 11:39:27 (permalink)
I was doing some comping yesterday where I had to do the Shift/Select thing to clean things up and/or creating splits to get rid of silent tails and stuff.
 
What I wouldn't mind having implemented is some kind of keybinding that allows you to just hit an arrow key with a modifier and the selection(s) jump to the other side of the split.
 
You know how when you make a split it will select either the clip(s) on the left or right of the split based on your settings? With this if I have it set to select the clip(s) to left of the split (which I prefer for most things) but actually want to have the clip(s) on the right selected I'd hit the arrow key/modifier and the selection would jump to the right.
 
That would make trimming the starts/ends of massive piles of take clips quite a bit faster I think.
 
Perhaps there is already a binding for that.
 
As far as the teeny tiny slivers... those are definitely annoying but I can usually zoom WAY in and do what I have to.
 
What would be REALLY cool I think is if there were a Delete Special option or something where you could get a dialog to specify "Delete all clips shorter than X". There could be a bunch of other options too for bulk deleting things without meticulously combing through the entire session. It gets a little crazy having to constantly open Lanes view on each track.
 
Still waiting for a Hide Lane feature as well.
#6
GregGraves
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 15:00:27 (permalink)
OK, thanks.  I see how to 'better' handle these.  That said, Cakewalk should:
 
a) fix their comping algorithm such that the last take goes to its own lane and doesn't splatter over all the other takes.
 
-or perhaps more desirable -
 
b) specify a "delete all clips shorter than X number of bars or ticks" as suggested by Beepster.
 
At least I am doing things correctly, but I consider this annoyance a bug not "the way things work".
post edited by GregGraves - 2015/02/06 15:11:57

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#7
GregGraves
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 15:10:59 (permalink)
To Sandexpander
 
You can't just ignore this annoyance, as the bits inhibit deleting all empty lanes (cuz they ain't empty).  So not only do you have to delete the bad takes, you have to delete all the bits too.  Its called "housekeeping".
 
Suppose you have a difficult part to play.  I could use auto-punch, but what seems to work best is comping on two tracks.  I select the first phrase on Track 1 and do that over and over until I get an acceptable take.  Then go comp on Track two for the 2nd phrase.  Back and forth.  If I don't CONTROL the number of take lanes that get created, it will get completely out of hand, as in last time I did this I had 81 lanes at one time.  So these bits are something that needs to be addressed by Cakewalk.

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FastBikerBoy
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 17:39:06 (permalink)
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to do but wouldn't it be easier to set up an auto punch region within a loop? That way you start recording and do as many takes as you want without the hassle.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 17:39:06 (permalink)
I think one of us is not understanding the other correctly. In no way, during comp recording, will any new take be "splattered" over old takes. At most, older takes will be split by the beginning and end points of newer takes. This has no effect on their playback. I don't see how this inhibits deleting all empty lanes. If you make the lane empty, they'll go. Do you mean that you don't like selecting all content in the lane rather than a single clip? In that case you can do as brundlefly suggested and use the comping tool to select over one entire take, "healing" all splits in one go.

Also, if I want to delete a take I usually use the small x button at the take lane header. Seems more elegant than deleting clips and then takes. If you do this after your loop recording and delete the last take with the partial, you're done.

I don't really get what you mean about getting a high number of takes if you don't control the number of takes. Or rather, I get it, but I don't see it as abnormal. If you need 81 passes to play a part, then you do. I don't see any way to reduce this other than playing better or comping/repairing better.
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BobF
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 17:49:55 (permalink)
brundlefly
Incidentally. I submitted a feature request once upon a time, asking the Bakers to add a function that automatically throws away that last partial take when it's less then some user-configurable length.




My other DAW has this option and it is GREAT.
 
OTOH, other than the clip litter, comping is very cool in Sonar.

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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/06 17:53:06 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to do but wouldn't it be easier to set up an auto punch region within a loop? That way you start recording and do as many takes as you want without the hassle.




I do this too, but sometimes it really breaks up the mojo depending on what is there before and after the target punch point(s).  I'm really trying to get used to this.
 
Overall, I personally find the whole loop recording thru final comp a bit fiddly and awkward.  I'm continuing to use it though, hoping it will get smoother as I get more used to it.

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GregGraves
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/07 12:21:08 (permalink)
"I think one of us is not understanding the other correctly. In no way, during comp recording, will any new take be "splattered" over old takes."
 
Uh, yes it does, does splatter, yep, uh huh. 
 

 
 

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Sanderxpander
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/07 12:39:56 (permalink)
Those bits, as I already said, aren't your last take. They still are the earlier takes, simply split by the length of your last partial to make the final comp.

As was already pointed out, you could "heal" the whole thing by deleting the lane with the partial and the using the comp tool to swipe one complete take.

I don't see anything wrong with this behavior, it fits with the comp recording paradigm. A function that would automatically delete takes below a certain length might be helpful, but could also be confusing.

I either still don't understand why this is giving you trouble or you don't understand what's really happening and how to fix it easily.
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Beepster
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/07 12:57:41 (permalink)
Yup, it's just a split that can be moved out of the way or will disappear if you delete that top take lane/clip.
 
It thinks you are doing a punch in for that section so it automatically creates the split so you can compare and comp just that section across all your takes. It takes some getting used to but it makes sense and is rather helpful once you figure it out.
 
The comping feature is something you really have to study up on to fully understand what the heck it's doing. I found it unuseable until I sat down and spent a half hour really figuring it out (until then I stuck with Sound On Sound and did things the old way). I still have to refer to the little cheat sheet I made sometimes even though I've been using comping mode pretty extensively.
 
As I said upthread... if a previous take is being partially covered up by lead in/lead out silence (which is guaranteed to happen when doing punch ins in Comp mode) you just have to readjust the split to where it is supposed to be or, now that I'm looking at what you did, delete the unwanted/silent clip.
 
This is also why I never do the Loop/Punch record thing. I do a TON of takes and I immediately know when something is garbage. I don't even have to look at my keyboard anymore to tap out a quick Spacebar (to stop), Ctrl + Z (delete last take), R (restart recording from punch point).
 
Seriously I've been tracking a lot lately and because when I'm getting into things I tend to close my eyes. I catch myself doing that binding sequence without even opening them which is starnge because I don't even have my hands over the keys (they are on my guitar).
 
Of course occasionaly I miss and wonder what the heck I just did (usually fit to screen or something relatively harmless) which is why I have to remember to open my eyes... lulz.
#15
GregGraves
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/07 13:50:44 (permalink)
OK, now I see/understand.
 
You delete the partial clip, and starting outside the next clip-take swipe all the way thru with the mouse icon representing the comping-tool icon.
 
That said, you can understand my frustration after deleting each and every one of those things one at a time.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: poopy-chunk on the comping lanes 2015/02/07 13:59:32 (permalink)
That would be a really time consuming and annoyance inducing way to deal with it, yes ;)

Like Beepster, the new speed comping in X3 confused the hell out of me in the beginning. Watching a YouTube tutorial for ten minutes has been my best investment in X3 so far. It's really quite elegant once you get used to it.
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