I need help with extracting tempo from clip with rhythm but without transients
Been struggling with this particular bit for a week. Working on a series of projects that will be entitled "House Noises." This one is based upon the clothes' washing machine. Got a file of a recording of the washer. It has rhythm but no defined transients. I recorded a track to mark time. It is obviously not perfect. But I cannot get the temp to change to align to measures from either clip. These files are each 50 meg. http://lansing.com/audiotemp/thump2.wavhttp://lansing.com/audiotemp/washer1.wav Anybody got clues?
post edited by YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson - 2015/02/10 09:18:08
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Kev999
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/09 23:38:47
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The washing machine cycle is a constant 96.03 bpm.
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Splat 
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/09 23:50:41
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I love this thread!  . I don't remember a question like this before ever...
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dubdisciple
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 03:41:16
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Kev999
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 04:54:55
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The thumps are irregularly spaced, but have silence between each. I would probably split the clip into individual thumps and align each one to the beat.
The washing machine is constant tempo. I would hate to have to fit it into a project in which the tempo varies.
What are you aiming to do next?
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dwardzala
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 07:29:40
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Clearly, he has to dry the clothes next.
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 09:16:28
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Thanks for the responses.
The washer has at least 7 distinct sounds:
filling, agitating, increasing to spin speed, spinning, de-filling (gushing), brakes on, and rapid spin down
The agitating sound is to be the basic rhythm. Then cloning the track, lots of eq to define what can be used to grab some midi notes, use CAL to add and delete and change note values.
The other washer noises will be added. Then melodic instruments and/or other found noises.
The thump was an attempt to create some transients.
The thumps are mostly close to the rhythm. But obviously not accurate enough.
Hence two tempos.
"The washing machine cycle is a constant 96.03 bpm."
"The thump is 94.74ish"
How did you guys get these numbers?
I get:
Washer: AS average tempo: 219: set project from the clip: 218.89
Thump: AS average tempo: 65: set project from the clip: 64.69
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dubdisciple
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 13:25:20
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I went old school and used the beatmapper in acid. It stays on beat, then fades, yhen jumps back on beat.
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gbowling
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 13:29:36
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Haven't listened, but just FYI.. I do this a lot with live recordings, record something live which isn't mapped to a tempo and the tempo may vary a bit. Then have to try to align it to a tempo for additional work.
The best method I've found for doing this is to do this.
Listen to the recording, and tap something.. anything. Could be a midi drum, could be a midi key on a keyboard, could be a mic you tap on to create a sound.
Tap this in time and record it in another track while listening to the more complex sound. Now you have a clean track with transients that are in time with your stuff, washing machine or live music.
Then you can use that track to define a tempo map and align your music or washing machine with the tempo.
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Kev999
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 14:12:29
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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
How did you guys get these numbers?
Trial and error. I adjusted the tempo up and down until it matched.
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dubdisciple
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 14:22:41
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If I were actually using a clip like this, I would likely chop and lay the slices into a very long loop, pereserving some of the odd spacing but still creating some level of reference.
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 23:09:08
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Thanks for the responses.
I have spent hundreds of hours working on clips of found noises. Occasionally I have been quickly happy. And a few time I have spent lots of time splitting, moving, snapping.....
I was hoping extracting a rhythm-tempo from a noise this consistent could be easier.
The thump clip is only an attempt to create transients. Obviously not so useful unless perfect.
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/10 23:19:36
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dubdisciple
I went old school and used the beatmapper in acid. It stays on beat, then fades, yhen jumps back on beat.
I do not have acid. (Oh, whoa is me.) "then fades" means? Loses beat? Drifts? Got some times? Obviously I can create a shorter clip. But, the longer the clip(s), the more slight variations will be enjoyed. I have been removing bits from the front and rear attempting to get to some spot of joy. ---------- Improve yourself daily: Today stop using "UP" phrases and words; you will be a better person for it: act up, add up, backup, break up, broke up, build up, caught up, choke up, clean up, close up, cook up, cooped up, crop up, cut up, doctor up, draw up, dry up, eat up, fed up, fill up, finish up, fired up, frame up, freshen up, Fred up, fun up, girl up, going up, hang up, heal up, heat up, hold up, hook up, jack up, knock up, lap up, look up, made up, make up, man up, mark up, match up, measure up, mop up, open up, patch up, paste up, pick up, pin up, pony up, punch up, push up, ratchet up, ramp up, rev up, roll up, round up, run up, screw up, set up, settle up, sex up, shrivel up, shut up, smash up, sop up, stack up, stick up, straighten up, suck up, sum up, throw up, tighten up, trim up, tune up, turn up, wait up, wake up, warm up, wind up, wipe up, work up, wrap up, you're up,...
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brundlefly
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/11 02:03:49
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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
How did you guys get these numbers?
When I reported the tempo in your original thread, I first trimmed the clip until it was starting with that strongest beat. Then I started playback, counted the cycles as 4/4 measures, stopped the transport at 9, and used Set Measure/Beat At Now to tell SONAR that was measure 9, beat 1. SONAR then resets the initial tempo to make the specified beat land on that absolute Now time.
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/11 23:54:45
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Thank you for your clarity.
I will try and know more this week end, after the insanity of real life.
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dubdisciple
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/12 02:05:52
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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
dubdisciple
I went old school and used the beatmapper in acid. It stays on beat, then fades, yhen jumps back on beat.
I do not have acid. (Oh, whoa is me.)
"then fades" means? Loses beat? Drifts? Got some times?
Obviously I can create a shorter clip. But, the longer the clip(s), the more slight variations will be
enjoyed.
I have been removing bits from the front and rear attempting to get to some spot of joy.
----------
Improve yourself daily:
Today stop using "UP" phrases and words; you will be a better person for it:
act up, add up, backup, break up, broke up, build up, caught up, choke up, clean up, close up, cook up, cooped up, crop up, cut up, doctor up, draw up, dry up, eat up, fed up, fill up, finish up, fired up, frame up, freshen up, Fred up, fun up, girl up, going up, hang up, heal up, heat up, hold up, hook up, jack up, knock up, lap up, look up, made up, make up, man up, mark up, match up, measure up, mop up, open up, patch up, paste up, pick up, pin up, pony up, punch up, push up, ratchet up, ramp up, rev up, roll up, round up, run up, screw up, set up, settle up, sex up, shrivel up, shut up, smash up, sop up, stack up, stick up, straighten up, suck up, sum up, throw up, tighten up, trim up, tune up, turn up, wait up, wake up, warm up, wind up, wipe up, work up, wrap up, you're up,...
sorry for not being clearer. i meant it drifts.
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Re: I need help with extracting tempo from clip with thythm but without transients
2015/02/12 15:17:08
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Thank you for the clarity.
I will shorten the clip and try again.
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