Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer?

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thefyn
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2015/02/13 13:58:32 (permalink)

Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer?

I'm going to start recording with 2 mic's on different speakers for a guitar track and I've been running into phase issues.  I'm also making a mess of trying to zoom in on wav files to match the peaks etc of the two tracks.
 
What is the best way to do this?  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UDU_Enb_X8
 
See where he zooms in on the two tracks?  I could not find a way to emulate this level of zooming on the two tracks simultaneously without the Sonar GUI tracks themselves being too bulky.  I presume there is an easy way to do this, but I'm not very good at navigating and have not scratched the surface of the DAW to be honest.
 
Any tips would be appreciated! 
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer? 2015/02/13 14:48:45 (permalink)
    There are many ways to zoom horizontally in SONAR. One is to hover your mouse in the timeline until you see the magnifying glass icon, and then click and drag down to zoom in, up to zoom out. You can also zoom the audio scale between the header an clips panes to better see peaks in a low level signal.
     
    For reference, sound in air travels roughly 1100 feet per second, so one sample at 44.1kHz is about 1100*12/44.1 = .3". That'll give yo some idea how far to move mics for a given phase error in samples. Adjust for your sample rate if not 44.1.
     
    If it were me, I think I'd play a drum track through the speakers, adjust input levels to roughly match, invert the phase of one of the recording tracks (see the Track Inspector), and adjust the mics until the level is as low as possible (i.e. maximum cancellation) while input-monitoring with headphones and/or watching the meter on a bus in SONAR. Then disable the phase invert and double-check with the recording-zoom method.
     
    I'm not a guitar guy, so you might get better suggestions and comments on the technique overall from people who actually do this.

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    thefyn
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    Re: Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer? 2015/02/13 15:48:32 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    There are many ways to zoom horizontally in SONAR. One is to hover your mouse in the timeline until you see the magnifying glass icon, and then click and drag down to zoom in, up to zoom out. You can also zoom the audio scale between the header an clips panes to better see peaks in a low level signal.
     
    For reference, sound in air travels roughly 1100 feet per second, so one sample at 44.1kHz is about 1100*12/44.1 = .3". That'll give yo some idea how far to move mics for a given phase error in samples. Adjust for your sample rate if not 44.1.
     
    If it were me, I think I'd play a drum track through the speakers, adjust input levels to roughly match, invert the phase of one of the recording tracks (see the Track Inspector), and adjust the mics until the level is as low as possible (i.e. maximum cancellation) while input-monitoring with headphones and/or watching the meter on a bus in SONAR. Then disable the phase invert and double-check with the recording-zoom method.
     
    I'm not a guitar guy, so you might get better suggestions and comments on the technique overall from people who actually do this.




    Thanks.  
     
    I can zoom in on individual tracks no problem.  The problem I have is zooming in on two tracks like on this video around the 3:21 min mark:
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UDU_Enb_X8
     
    So BOTH tracks zoom at the same time.  
     
     
     
    #3
    brundlefly
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    Re: Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer? 2015/02/13 16:09:52 (permalink)
    I think you mean around the 1:30 mark. 3:21 is the end of the video. SONAR always zooms the whole view - all tracks - horizontally by the same amount just like you see there, so I'm not sure what you mean.  If you're talking about the vertical track size, that's just a matter of dragging the track dividers in the header pane to make them taller, and then zooming the scale if necessary to make the waveform use the the available space by dragging the dB scale in the divider between the panes.
     

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    Blues_Jam
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    Re: Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer? 2015/02/13 17:52:35 (permalink)
    In track view, hover your mouse over a track clip, press the Z key until you get a magnifying glass icon, left-click the mouse and drag over the area you want to zoom. That will fill the track view with your selection. If you need to zoom more then be sure to drag over both tracks.
     
     
    Edit: When done zooming, press Z again to get back to your previous mouse cursor.
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Best way to compare/zoom 2 mono guitar tracks to check for phase issues X3 producer? 2015/02/13 19:15:08 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    ...one sample at 44.1kHz is about 1100*12/44.1 = .3". 

    Hey, that's a cool observation, brundlefly. It has never occurred to me to calculate the distance of one sample.
     
    So that means there is about a 26-sample difference between one's ears. 
     


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