Myriad_Rocker
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AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
I'm still kind of stewing over which version to jump into. I had originally settled on the Artist version because it had everything I needed. I already own Melodyne, I already have BFD3 and Slate drums, and I don't see having much need for the Pro Channel stuff. Then I noticed that Artist doesn't include AudioSnap. To get that, I would need to jump up to the next level, which is $100 more. I like the idea of being able to correct small timing issues with AudioSnap and also being able to change tempos of songs (which may actually be some other function, I can't remember).
Anyway...is AudioSnap worth the extra bucks or is there some other tool that could accomplish what it does, just with a little bit more work (but still not manual)?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/15 17:51:03
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☄ Helpfulby nebukenazar 2015/02/15 17:53:02
You could do small timing corrections mostly with Melodyne, depending on the source material. That said, I do use AudioSnap and it is useful for that purpose. Very handy to CTRL+drag a clip edge or transient marker to fit and then bounce to clip.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/15 20:16:44
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Depends on how badly you need audiosnap I guess. I use it a lot to extract a tempo map from audio played freely. I haven't checked the version features but there must be more to the next version than audiosnap which might make your decision a little easier.
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Myriad_Rocker
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/15 22:16:17
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FastBikerBoyDepends on how badly you need audiosnap I guess. I use it a lot to extract a tempo map from audio played freely. I haven't checked the version features but there must be more to the next version than audiosnap which might make your decision a little easier. As far as I can tell, the differences are some effects, the ProChannel, sampled drums, AudioSnap, and Melodyne. That's all worth more than the extra $100, but just not to me. I have too many plug-in's as it is. I'd like to reduce the amount of plug-in's that mostly do the same thing. However, I'm all for tools that make my recording/editing life easier. I'm just not sure if AudioSnap is worth it for me to justify the cost. I know that's kind of for me to determine, but if there's something about it I can't live without or a way I can do the same thing with just a little bit more effort, that'll make things easier to decide.
post edited by Myriad_Rocker - 2015/02/15 22:38:59
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mixmkr
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/15 22:20:48
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Maybe monthly with the Artist series and if you feel you'd like more, you can upgrade, with minimum spent towards the Artist level. I wouldn't discount the ProChannel, but like I said, you can always switch down the road.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 03:08:02
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Myriad_Rocker
I know that's kind of for me to determine, but if there's something about it I can't live without or a way I can do the same thing with just a little bit more effort, that'll make things easier to decide.
That much depends on what you think you might use it for or how often. Why do you think you want it? Is it just to change tempos occasionally and the odd timing change. If it is maybe not but changes are going to be much harder if not impossible without it. I also wouldn't write off the prochannel as just another load of fx. If you've never used it not only do most, if not all of the modules sound great but there is a convenience there that you don't get with regular FX in the FX rack, although plugin recycling has improved that greatly with fx, with the prochannel they are already there to use without having to bother inserting them.
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ampfixer
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 03:21:59
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FastBikerBoy
Depends on how badly you need audiosnap I guess. I use it a lot to extract a tempo map from audio played freely. I haven't checked the version features but there must be more to the next version than audiosnap which might make your decision a little easier.
Have you included a "how to" in any of your video's?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 03:39:30
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Hi John. Yes I used tempo extraction in the new video to demo some of the changes to audiosnap. I also covered it in this X2 one but of course the newer enhancements aren't shown there.
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gswitz
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 07:46:21
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I have really only ever used Audio Snap (more than experimentally) to extract timing and intensity of drum hits to midi so I could do drum augmentation.
For example, I record a drum kit, but I only have one bass drum mic. It either goes on the beater side on the other side. So, to get the sound I want, I might extract the midi hits using Audio Snap and then send them to a drum synth and mix the new kick in with the original. This works really well and is very easy. It's better in Platinum even.
Apparently they are working on enhancing drum augmentation further as part of the subscription stuff, and I'm guessing it might be platinum only because of the Audio Snap requirement.
Regarding audio stretching and fixing timing and stuff, I have NEVER done this for a real recording I cared about. I've experimented on practice tracks. I don't normally record with a metronome. I record a group of people playing freely and then set the tempo approximately to the song played. The tempo invariably changes at the start and end of the tune.
I get so much bleed between mics that audio snap and melodyne are practically useless to me.
I primarily use Melodyne just to see what someone has played. Maybe pick out the key changes.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 08:21:48
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You can do the same kind of drum augmentation with Melodyne. Just drag your kick drum clip onto a midi track.
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dwardzala
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 08:30:11
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I think this is the difficulty in the new membership model. There may be some features or content that you will value, that you don't know about right now. We know drum replacer is coming for Platinum only, but that may or may not be of interest. We don't know what else is on tap.
Vocal sync is also a platinum only feature that might be worth it if you need to edit vocals for timing or do ADR for video.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 09:05:02
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I record a group of people playing freely and then set the tempo approximately to the song played. The tempo invariably changes at the start and end of the tune. That is something Audiosnap can do quite well. Invariably I want to add MIDI instruments or timing critical effects to a recording and the tempo map extraction method demo'd in the video I linked to earlier is perfect for that. (the second link is free btw)
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Anderton
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 10:09:17
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The way I usually use AudioSnap makes it indispensable to me. I set the Edit Filter to Transients, and adjust individual transients to line up things like guitar chords if I need them to hit right on the beat. This tip details the process. This tip gives some background about how to tweak AudioSnap's Transient Map. I've also found AS useful for locking bass to drums. Here are some articles on AudioSnap applications you might find helpful. They relate to older versions, but the capabilities are still there. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may10/articles/sonarnotes_0510.htmhttp://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/sonartech_0307.htmhttp://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov11/articles/sonar-workshop-1111.htmhttp://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/sonar-tech-0911.htm AudioSnap's effectiveness varies depending on the timing grid. It's very easy to use on something like a drum loop with defined transients, plucked or struck notes, etc. For sustained sounds, it's more fiddly. A good rule of thumb is that anything that's easy to convert into a REX or acidized file is a good candidate for AS. FastBikerBoy
I also wouldn't write off the prochannel as just another load of fx. If you've never used it not only do most, if not all of the modules sound great but there is a convenience there that you don't get with regular FX in the FX rack, although plugin recycling has improved that greatly with fx, with the prochannel they are already there to use without having to bother inserting them.
I agree that the ProChannel is about workflow as much as FX. But also, it has effects for which I don't have equivalents. The Tube distortion is outstanding when you add a slight growl to electric bass. The Console Emulator is generally very useful and the Tape Emulation can do very cool things with acoustic guitar, drums, and bass. Platinum also gives the Blue Tubes effects, which are more "vintagey" if your tastes run along those lines.
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gswitz
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 10:16:03
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@FBB, I was working to have the tempo follow the tune for a while until I noticed that lots of tempo-sync'd plugins do not handle tempo changes well.
For example the VX-64 Vocal Strip gives (gave?) a nasty pop every time the tempo changed. When you let the tempo adjust with the musicians this was disastrous. I don't know if it's still an issue, I just decided that for the tempo-sync'd FX, that pretty close was close enough for me. If the tempo doesn't change the FX work fine. I can set the tempo within 1 BPM or so and if the song picks up speed at the beginning or slows down at the end, the Sync'd Effect will just be a little off for that time. Oh well.
Its not worth my time to carefully vet every plugin on a project to make sure a tempo change doesn't cause an audible click.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 10:52:03
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gswitz
@FBB, I was working to have the tempo follow the tune for a while until I noticed that lots of tempo-sync'd plugins do not handle tempo changes well.
For example the VX-64 Vocal Strip gives (gave?) a nasty pop every time the tempo changed. When you let the tempo adjust with the musicians this was disastrous. I don't know if it's still an issue, I just decided that for the tempo-sync'd FX, that pretty close was close enough for me. If the tempo doesn't change the FX work fine. I can set the tempo within 1 BPM or so and if the song picks up speed at the beginning or slows down at the end, the Sync'd Effect will just be a little off for that time. Oh well.
Its not worth my time to carefully vet every plugin on a project to make sure a tempo change doesn't cause an audible click.
I can't say that's something I've noticed but I don't use VX-64 that often. Is it caused by big jumps or any change at all? Most of the stuff I'm doing stays within about 5 BPM or so and drifts around a centre point.
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Anderton
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 12:48:12
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gswitz
Its not worth my time to carefully vet every plugin on a project to make sure a tempo change doesn't cause an audible click.
Hopefully this will save you some time  In my experience, time-based effects as an overall category glitch when doing tempo changes. (I presume this is because buffers have to be flushed and replaced with new data, but that's conjecture.) On the other hand amplitude-or filtering-based effects (e.g., Tremolo, auto-pan, LFO Wah, etc.) can handle tempo changes well.
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gswitz
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 18:59:18
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Thanks, Craig. I totally agree with this finding.
When I record a band playing a song and then double back to set the project tempo, I'm usually doing it so I can apply a tempo-based effect like delay to a vocal or something. Consequently, in that exact case, if I vary the tempo a lot to follow the tune, I shoot myself in the foot.
That's all I was saying.
Obviously, if you start in the box with a click track or a drum track, then you're good to go and the tempo never changes.
I'm not sure what the case is for having the tempo of the project follow the tempo of the song through live real-time musician based variations if the tempo-sync'd FX can't be used. What's the benefit of having the project follow the tempo of the song more precisely if it precludes the use of tempo-based FX?
The only use I can think of is if you wanted to extract the score and print it (which I never do).
Here, I want to give respect to the Bakers for making it the easiest yet to switch clips and tracks to time-based setting so you can alter the project's tempo without re-arranging your project in an unwanted way. Setting a song to a single tempo is something I often do.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/16 21:13:54
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2015/02/17 08:55:13
gswitz
I'm not sure what the case is for having the tempo of the project follow the tempo of the song through live real-time musician based variations if the tempo-sync'd FX can't be used. What's the benefit of having the project follow the tempo of the song more precisely if it precludes the use of tempo-based FX?
You can often get away with "stepped" tempo changes. It's the continuously variable ones that wreak havoc with delays and such.
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Myriad_Rocker
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/17 21:02:55
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This thread kind of grew some legs.
I've done a bit more comparing and something else that entices me is the inclusion of Dimension LE and other soft synths in the next level up. Is anyone aware of there being some comparable soft synths on the market that are cheap or free?
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Paul P
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/17 22:03:44
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Myriad_Rocker
I've done a bit more comparing and something else that entices me is the inclusion of Dimension LE and other soft synths in the next level up. Is anyone aware of there being some comparable soft synths on the market that are cheap or free?
Both Rapture and the full Dimension Pro have been known to go on sale for 20$ each, which is an outstanding deal on some pretty nice synths. If you can wait, and if the new store still has sales.
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...wicked
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/18 01:55:19
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I couldn't see owning a sequencer that didn't have built in audio quantizing and editing tools like audiosnap. I don't use it a lot, but when I do it's the only thing that works. It would be like buying a full-furnished toolbox that didn't have needle nosed pliers in it.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Sir Les
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Re: AudioSnap...worth the extra $100?
2015/02/18 02:07:46
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Anderton
The way I usually use AudioSnap makes it indispensable to me. I set the Edit Filter to Transients, and adjust individual transients to line up things like guitar chords if I need them to hit right on the beat. This tip details the process. This tip gives some background about how to tweak AudioSnap's Transient Map.
I've also found AS useful for locking bass to drums.
Here are some articles on AudioSnap applications you might find helpful. They relate to older versions, but the capabilities are still there.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may10/articles/sonarnotes_0510.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/sonartech_0307.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov11/articles/sonar-workshop-1111.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/sonar-tech-0911.htm
AudioSnap's effectiveness varies depending on the timing grid. It's very easy to use on something like a drum loop with defined transients, plucked or struck notes, etc. For sustained sounds, it's more fiddly. A good rule of thumb is that anything that's easy to convert into a REX or acidized file is a good candidate for AS.
FastBikerBoy
I also wouldn't write off the prochannel as just another load of fx. If you've never used it not only do most, if not all of the modules sound great but there is a convenience there that you don't get with regular FX in the FX rack, although plugin recycling has improved that greatly with fx, with the prochannel they are already there to use without having to bother inserting them.
I agree that the ProChannel is about workflow as much as FX. But also, it has effects for which I don't have equivalents. The Tube distortion is outstanding when you add a slight growl to electric bass. The Console Emulator is generally very useful and the Tape Emulation can do very cool things with acoustic guitar, drums, and bass.
Platinum also gives the Blue Tubes effects, which are more "vintagey" if your tastes run along those lines.
Man you are a teacher and a helpful resource!...I have been trying to use this audio snap in x3e, and changing that audio to midi, so I can score the input....not working so good, and then Platinum came out saying they tweaked it to perform better...Now you post all this info....Thanks man!. I Got to get this method working now. Regards and cheers for those links!.
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