charles kasler
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monitor vox through verb
Hi - I'm using a new Focusrite interface. I want to monitor vox as I'm singing through a Sonar reverb plug. They said to mute the track I am recording so there's no latency (direct monitoring) but that also mutes the reverb. Is there a way around this? Thanks.
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gustabo
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/16 19:50:41
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Does your Focusrite interface not have DSP for direct monitoring that you can enable?
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charles kasler
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/16 20:05:34
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Bob - I'm new to the interface & still learning. It has "zero latency monitoring". Here's what they said: You can set MixControl to Zero Latency Tracking. This will allow you to hear the input signal along with the playback from your DAW. When selecting this option make sure to Mute the audio track in your DAW. If the track is not muted you will then do what is called double monitoring. This means that you are hearing your input signal and the same signal coming back from your DAW. This can cause a doubling effect that can throw you off while recording. This works fine but I'm supposed to be able to monitor thru a plug-in with Sonar (I think). But not if I have to mute the track I'm recording. What do others do? Thanks for yr input.
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lawajava
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/16 20:18:39
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Charles, I have a Focusrite Scarlett audio interface. Here's how I do it. 1. Track you're going to record on, all set up, receiving the direct input from your microphone. Input echo is on. Routes to a preferred bus you have. 2. Extra bus set up (I call it Live Monitor). On this bus add a reverb effect. Since it's on a bus, set the reverb effect to fully wet. 3. Add a Send from your track that you're recording on to that Live Monitor bus, and add in Send volume to suit your needs. This works fine for recording/tracking. On playback turn off the Send to the Live Monitor bus to hear how it sounds with your regular track mix. You don't need input echo actually for that track at that point either.
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mixmkr
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/16 20:19:34
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If you're using Cakewalk reverb, you HAVE to monitor the track. Then you'll need to adjust buffer size to set your latency as low as possible, so there isn't the delay. Don't monitor off the Focusrite in addition with this. That said, you may run into trouble if you have a weaker computer, large track counts, virtual instuments.... all because that will affect the ability of the computer and audio device to handle lower latency settings. As a work around, and typically much easier, consider using a hardware reverb in you monitor path, (and then you can also use your Focusrite monitoring..... but obviously don't send the reverb to be recorded..just the mic. IOW You can buy reverbs used all day long for $50 or less, that will be fine for this purpose,....like older digital rack mount reverbs EDIT lavajava's idea is great too....but you'll still need to have the latency at a small enough amount so you're not hearing a "delayed" voice when singing.
post edited by mixmkr - 2015/02/16 20:26:48
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lawajava
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/16 22:57:46
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Craig Anderton suggested a great idea for lowering latency issues on weaker computers while tracking. He suggested bouncing the whole song to a stereo track and muting everything but that and the audio track you are recording.
Seems to work whenever I've had a latency conundrum.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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charles kasler
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/17 14:32:16
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Great ideas! thank you all.
Paresh Dell Inspiron 5775, AMD Ryzen 5 2500U @2 GHz, Win 10, 16Gb ram,Sonar Platinum, 1 TB SSD
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charles kasler
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/18 20:21:44
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OK lawajava - I have the Scarlett also. I followed yr steps. Haven't had enough time yet to play with it, but here's what I got: I have to engage the Sonar input echo in order to hear the verb bus...not sure why as I don't know what the input echo button actually does - reroute the signal?? When it's engaged I still hear a delay...I could lower the latency as was suggested but a prefader send + mute the track I'm recording seems to work to eliminate the delay. I still need to test it more. Do you do any special settings in the mix control? They mostly seem to be for power users.
Paresh Dell Inspiron 5775, AMD Ryzen 5 2500U @2 GHz, Win 10, 16Gb ram,Sonar Platinum, 1 TB SSD
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lawajava
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/18 21:11:35
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If I have a chance this evening I'll take a look and give you further description. It does work and provides flexible settings for dialing in reverb as needed.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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Anderton
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/18 21:58:16
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lawajava Craig Anderton suggested a great idea for lowering latency issues on weaker computers while tracking. He suggested bouncing the whole song to a stereo track and muting everything but that and the audio track you are recording.
Seems to work whenever I've had a latency conundrum.
Actually I suggested archiving, not muting, as that disconnects the tracks from the CPU.
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lawajava
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/18 22:56:40
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Craig - You're right of course. By the way, that suggestion does work on occasions where it seems like latency is happening when you don't expect it.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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lawajava
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/19 01:00:31
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Charles, okay, a bit more detail: Scarlett MixControl. Mix 1 Tab. Leftmost channel (Analog 1/2 In). Let's say you've got a microphone plugged into 1. Routing under sliders: Mix1 L to Monitor Output 1, Mix1 R to Monitor Output 2 Input buttons at bottom set to Line (not Instrument). Settings button at bottom of Mix Control - set to 2.0 ms if you can do that. In Sonar Platinum have an audio track ready to record your microphone. Let's call this track Vox1. Also have that Vox1 track with an output to a bus. Let's call that bus "Vox" and have that Vox bus point to a Master bus. Set up an additional bus called (for example): Live Monitor. Here's a tip (what I do). Actually have two Live buses. One called Live Monitor, one called Live Verb. Each of those buses should route to the Master bus. Having two allows you to definitely increase the volume of what you're tracking/recording (put it in the front of the mix in your headphones) and also allows very easy balancing of how much verb you want in your ear. On the Live Verb bus add a Verb effect, set to 100% wet. On the Vox1 track, first you have your track output going to the Vox bus. second, you add a Send on that track to Live Monitor (which is your dry monitor, allows you to add volume) third, add a second Send on the Vox1 track to the Live Verb bus. Turn the input monitor only on the Vox1 track. Turn on the Sends on for Vox1. They start at 100%, but you can move the send volume down. You can reduce the Live Verb send to much less than the Live Monitor send and you'll have a light reverb touch, or you can increase it. Alternatively, you can just have one Live Monitor send (with the reverb on it). But I've found having two makes setting the adjustment of how much reverb and the overall monitor volume for that track super easy to control. When playing back the track after recording it, simply turn off the Sends and you'll hear the track as it should play at normal volume without the "live" bus reverb. Personally, I like bringing to the forefront in my headphones the monitor volume of the track I'm recording (leaving the rest of the song at a lower volume)
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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charles kasler
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/19 14:18:23
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lawajava - Thanks for taking the time!! I'll have to wait til tomorrow to set it up & test. You didn't mention muting the vox1 so it sounds like that's not necessary. Not sure what happened when i tried but I'll have more time to test it out tomorrow. thanks again!
Paresh Dell Inspiron 5775, AMD Ryzen 5 2500U @2 GHz, Win 10, 16Gb ram,Sonar Platinum, 1 TB SSD
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charles kasler
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/20 18:31:07
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I'm up & running. One send is enough for me so it's easier. Thanks again.
Paresh Dell Inspiron 5775, AMD Ryzen 5 2500U @2 GHz, Win 10, 16Gb ram,Sonar Platinum, 1 TB SSD
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Cactus Music
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Re: monitor vox through verb
2015/02/20 19:41:55
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Funny how the latency delay can actually be used to fool a client. I normally track trough my Yamaha 01v so adding reverb to the headphones is easy. The 01v is getting old and someday it just has to die.. So I picked up a little Mackie Mix 8, a Joe Meek ThreeQ pre amp and a Lexicon MX200 reverb/Delay unit. A client showed up as I was just getting this new system all hooked up and I didn't have time to test. The reverb wasn't working ( later found a dead cable) and he was asking for his reverb on the headphones. When I engaged input echo the latency delay came through as well as the reverb on the send already in place . He went , "thanks that sound good"!!! You can adjust the amount by turning down the tracks volume. Of course that does not effect the record level. There's no real need to fuss as much as described above. Just turn on input echo, turn down the track volume but crank up the send and return of the reverb buss. This makes for an all wet signal so the small amount of delay is burred in the reverb and you won't hear it. Your basically turning down the dry signal and cranking the wet. Anyhow most cheap little mixers come with reverb and it works without any fuss. I bought the Lexicon for live performance but it's pretty nice to use that kind of quality just for tracking.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/02/20 19:49:15
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