Locked[Implemented] Realtime internal recording.

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Vas
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/16 19:17:47 (permalink)
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brundlefly
You're still not recording audio; You're recording MIDI, and the Freeze operation is generating the audio. The waveform preview is just a low-res visual representation of what the track meter is registering. You can get the same result by recording MIDI in a Simple Instrument track, and bouncing to another track. But you're still generating audio offline after the fact.
 
There is a workaround involving bouncing the soft synth track to another track with Fast Bounce disabled, and Live Input enabled, but it's more trouble than it's worth.
 
It'a best just to go ahead and create a loopback path, either with physical patching or in your interface's virtual mixer if it provides this functionaity.
 



Thanks for the explanation. Here I thought I may have found the answer. 
 
The work around which is not totally clear to me seems way more than I can handle.  
 
I work with waveforms a lot. I stack them, stretch them and do many un-mentionable things to them. So for me to be able to easily record the audio out from a VSTi is crucial.
 
Who want to buy my Sonar Platinum. Never down loaded and never installed.

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#31
Resonant Serpent
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/16 21:21:51 (permalink)
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I vote for this. It's been on my list for a long time.

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#32
Splat
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/16 21:41:08 (permalink)
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perfectprint
theres an excellent warning sound that occurs telling you have introduced a feedback loop! the fact that it may be possible to introduce one is not reason to exclude it. 


If there's an option to disable the functionality in preferences set by default newbies wouldn't hear a squeek.

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#33
mixmkr
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/16 21:42:43 (permalink)
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I'm scratching my head ...as to why not with patching the loop, by whatever means and muting where needed.  Yes, some flip of the buttons within Sonar would be nice, but most people at this point in recording should be able to do this with minimal hassle.
 
However...the idea mentioned earlier about a newb expecting to record their VSTi live is most excellent.  Why would they think otherwise?

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#34
pwalpwal
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/17 08:27:13 (permalink)
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when a "noobie" (fwoabw) introduces a feedback loop, they soon learn how to avoid them! (just like in the real world) maybe a warning of some kind, to help?
#35
to_be_deleted
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/17 09:16:41 (permalink)
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Where do I vote for this?
#36
BobF
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/17 10:04:41 (permalink)
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I voted for this, but ...
 
This seems like a case for better routing to me.  Being able to send to another track should solve this, and would be useful in other ways too.

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#37
Vas
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FR official statement on How to Record Audio of VSTi in Real-Time IS NOT POSSIBLE 2015/02/17 16:28:10 (permalink)
+6 (3)
It is hard to believe that at
http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONAR-University/Get-Started
and the manual
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/doc.aspx?DLID=1005
have no instructions on how to record the audio from a VSTi.
So I looked at the 38 MB X3 Reference Guide
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/doc.aspx?DLID=1002
and again only how to record midi only. Perhaps I did not look hard enough?

I did a search for “record” at the forum
http://forum.cakewalk.com/SONAR-f70.aspx
and only seven items came up. That was not much help.
 
In our modern day I feel that one thing that any DAW should easily is to record audio from a VSTi in real-time. As one member said it is expected that Sonar being a top DAW will have this feature. Users are amazed to learn that is not possible in Sonar. They finally spend hours on research and in my case three days trying to get this to work. What a waste of time for all of us Sonar supporters.
 
I see many threads asking about how to record audio from a VSTi on real time. Cakewalk should by now realize that this is a very desirable feature to implement. They have not after so many version updates and so they will never do so in my opinion.
 
So, my feature request is that Cakewalk put in their manual and in the forums an official statement that Sonar cannot easily record audio from a VSTi in real-time. There are as scook to quote him directly summarized:

“Plug-in output is not recorded in SONAR. The only solutions are VST recorders, loopback (with physical and virtual audio connections) and bounce using live input. That is it, there is no more.”
 
Officially state that Sonar has been designed to disallow any real-time recording of any and all VSTi’s. This will reduce the threads on this subject and save the members hours spent on research.
 
List all the applicable threads:

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#38
Beepster
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Re: FR official statement on How to Record Audio of VSTi in Real-Time IS NOT POSSIBLE 2015/02/17 16:43:34 (permalink)
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I'm not seeing how this is a problem though. You play your part and click the "Freeze" button or bounce and it's printed. Then it's an audio clip.
 
I genuinely curious because I may be overlooking something... what real world application would this be preferable for?
 
And of course if it is absolutely necessary a loopback via the interface into a new track isn't all that difficult. Some interfaces even have wireless loopback.
#39
Vas
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Re: FR official statement on How to Record Audio of VSTi in Real-Time IS NOT POSSIBLE 2015/02/17 19:16:57 (permalink)
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If you are happy with how recording the VSTi is currently done you have company.
 
Midi and external audio can be recorded in real time. No-one asking that to first freeze the tracks and then to bounce.
 
1. For me it is workflow.
2. the bounce clip may not be identical to what I recorded. Some randomization from the VST and VSTi will not be reproduced properly.
3. Cubase which I dropped for Sonar can do this so I was expecting that all great DAW's can record the audio from a VSTi in real time. 
4. I am not crazy about work-arounds. Yes perhaps if I do adopt them I may get used to them.
 
The FR I am proposing here is not to start a debate as to why but to inform other users as stated in the OP. The why and how debate is going on in other threads.

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#40
mettelus
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/18 08:33:46 (permalink)
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I voted for this as well and agree it would be nice to have a "signal tap" option which could be routed to an audio track for recording. As far as feedback loops are concerned, internally this would be easier to safeguard; but the easiest route is to simply mute the armed/recorded track in any loopback situation so that track is not added to the loop. Interfaces with more ins/outs can perform more tactical physical (cabled) loopbacks, and some have this feature inside the box (Focusrite's Saffire line has this).
 
It would be more convenient to have this feature internal to SONAR where a feedback loop could be prevented in a better fashion. Externally it requires a bit more forethought and setup to execute properly.

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#41
dwardzala
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/18 11:21:26 (permalink)
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to_be_deleted
Where do I vote for this?


Rate the first post (top right of the post) from 1 to 5 stars.

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#42
jatoth
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Re: FR official statement on How to Record Audio of VSTi in Real-Time IS NOT POSSIBLE 2015/02/18 13:36:14 (permalink)
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Scook's work around.
 
IIRC it went something like this...
 
Place a note past the end of the song on the MIDI or instrument track
Enable "Echo On" on the MIDI or instrument track
Select the track(s) associated with the synth
Bounce the track(s) with "Fast Bounce" disabled, "Audible Bounce" and "Live Input" enabled
Play synth while the track(s) are being bounced.
 
This should allow you to "record" the VSTi while playing live.
Not as eloquent as routing the output, but it works.

John
 
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#43
mettelus
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/18 22:42:15 (permalink)
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Just to clarify that this will not work for this feature inside SONAR before I share this so not to confuse people.
 
The only thing I know of that does a similar feature elegantly is Geist. Geist comes with a very small and convenient audio tap VST called "Spitter" which can be inserted anywhere you can insert an audio VST. All it does it simply create an "audio out" routing that can used by Geist's sampling engine to record "what you hear." Unfortunately, that audio out is only scripted to be used by Geist (which make sense), since Geist internally does not route that signal back into the audio engine while sampling (essentially the muting required to be effective).
 
Spitter is a very simple VST (no bells or whistles), but seems the same basic principle could be done within SONAR itself... VST tap an audio signal which can be recorded into a muted audio track.
 
Again, Spitter's audio out does not appear inside SONAR, they are only visible to Geist's sampling algorithm so this not a workaround to this functionality within SONAR.

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#44
Earwax
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/19 04:55:54 (permalink)
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Absolutely essential in helping to wipe away the differences between the live recording of external audio and the live recording of VST/VSTi. I'm in.

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#45
Vas
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Re: FR official statement on How to Record Audio of VSTi in Real-Time IS NOT POSSIBLE 2015/02/19 10:39:11 (permalink)
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Jatoth,
 
Thanks for the reminder as I am collecting all the possible work-arrounds.
I shake my head when I read them. Tears are rolling down my cheeks. Oh,
well onions do this for me all the time.
 
I will evaluate them and attempt to implement them and experiment with workflow.
However I am examining other DAW's and two will be releasing new versions shortly.
I dropped Cubase as a contender due to a couple personal work flow issues and no ARA.
Recording the VSTi in real time can be the deal-breaker for me though there are a few
others troublesome areas I hope to resolve as I learn to use this very fine DAW.
 
I had gone into Sonar with such great anticipation and so early in the process of learning
to use it I stumbled and fell and time will tell if this caused any brain damage. So hj?kll
ha=wpd  jljllf ;-) jkod%a ljljlf fkfohe ioueouo[q jjlk&o gwa!
 

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#46
trtzbass
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/26 04:47:10 (permalink)
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Yep, recording via an aux bus would be a great addition. I use that technique all the time in other DAWs

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#47
lfm
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/02/27 03:31:33 (permalink)
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My vote was for a simple and general solution that do this and more:
 
For an record armed track - ability to select recording source.
The source could be any tracks output.
And one could disable Echo monitoring if such a source is selected - if there is a dangerous route for feedback.
 
Reaper has implemented this - for both audio and midi.
This means you can use an audio->midi plug - and record the midi from that to another track.
And you can record synth outputs or tracks after fx too.
#48
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: FR official statement on How to Record Audio of VSTi in Real-Time IS NOT POSSIBLE 2015/03/17 23:38:44 (permalink)
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This is a long requested feature.  Sad it continues to be responded to with stubbornness. Especially when all the other major recording programs have had this feature for years.
 
 
#49
pwalpwal
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record a synth's output in realtime 2015/07/09 06:15:38 (permalink)
+4 (2)
the ability to record a synth's output in realtime would be incredibly convenient: rather then faffing about with loopback cables or other VSTs, to just select that synth's output as an input on an audio track
(ref: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Really-incredible-that-we-still-can39t-record-a-soft-synth39s-output-in-real-time-m2869414-p5.aspx )

just a sec

#50
scook
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Re: record a synth's output in realtime 2015/07/09 08:50:57 (permalink)
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merged with previous request
#51
radgeorge
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/07/10 04:22:14 (permalink)
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"record a soft synth's output in real time"      Yes vote!
 
A very important feature to have as part of any DAW. I was astounded to find out I could not do this with Sonar Producer x3. Will have to rethink my switch to Sonar DAW if this is not integrated going forward.
 
post edited by radgeorge - 2015/07/10 04:28:47
#52
theheliosequence
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Re: Realtime internal recording. 2015/07/31 03:45:52 (permalink)
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Looks like this is an upcoming feature now... Very cool!
#53
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