MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface

Author
JohnEgan
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 543
  • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
  • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
  • Status: offline
2015/01/31 13:52:10 (permalink)

MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface

Anyone have any experience with MOTU interfaces/preamps or more so newer MOTU AVB type interfaces working with Sonar? I'm upgrading my recording resources and looking at the MOTU 8M to start, it seems quite impressive for, expansion, virtual 48 channel mixer/routing  and I/O speeds, (Thunderbolt and USB2).
Also I'm not sure about their preamp reputation, or what qualifies as being "prestine" in preamps they refer to having, anyone know about their preamps?
 
 
  
#1

21 Replies Related Threads

    ØSkald
    Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1248
    • Joined: 2010/12/22 16:52:47
    • Location: Norway
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/02 15:29:55 (permalink)
    I am using a MOTU UltraLite MK3 and I love it. My guitars sounds good when recording. Low latency too. I don't know it that is of any help, cause UltraLite is a older card.
    #2
    SuperG
    Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1371
    • Joined: 2012/10/19 16:09:18
    • Location: Edgewood, NM
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/02 18:50:38 (permalink)
    Jarsve
    I am using a MOTU UltraLite MK3 and I love it. My guitars sounds good when recording. Low latency too. I don't know it that is of any help, cause UltraLite is a older card.




    I have an ultralite MK3 as well and very happy with it. My impression is that MOTU preamps are clean sounding. It's easy to use.
     
     
    The 8M being AVB - you're charting new waters there, unless you're planning on going USB with it.
     

    laudem Deo
    #3
    rumleymusic
    Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1533
    • Joined: 2006/08/23 18:03:05
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/02 23:20:28 (permalink)
    As far as I know they haven't upgraded their preamps any.  They are quite muddy and noisy compared to similarly priced options.   Pristine? No.  I had an 828mk2 but found the preamps unusable for any kind of detailed work.  I "traded" it for a Steinberg MR816, which I was much more happy with sound quality wise.  However, MOTU is far better in the driver department than most except RME.  I still think the RME UFX is the cream of the crop under $4000.  

    Daniel Rumley
    Rumley Music and Audio Production
    www.rumleymusic.com
    #4
    yummay
    Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 396
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 09:01:58
    • Location: Canada, Quebec
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 00:28:47 (permalink)
    Keep us posted! This new line of AVB / thunderbolt / USB interface got my attention a couple of weeks ago, before I started to do more research on other solutions based on Audinate's DANTE protocol.
     
    I thought MOTU had stated that they HAD improve their preamps... but I am not sure about that.

    Yummay,
    Amuses-gueules sonores
    Bite-sized sounds and harmonic entrées
     
    Dell Studio 1747 (I7), Tascam US20x20, Yamaha 01v96V2 / Behringer ADA 8000, Godin LGXT+ Roland GR-09, Behringer Motor 49. Windows 10 (64), Sonar Platinum, Komplete 10, Sound Forge 10, Vegas pro 9, Waves Gold.
    #5
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 11:08:17 (permalink)
    rumleymusic
    As far as I know they haven't upgraded their preamps any.  They are quite muddy and noisy compared to similarly priced options.   Pristine? No.  I had an 828mk2 but found the preamps unusable for any kind of detailed work.  I "traded" it for a Steinberg MR816, which I was much more happy with sound quality wise.  However, MOTU is far better in the driver department than most except RME.  I still think the RME UFX is the cream of the crop under $4000.  


    Thanks for this, Ive heard all great things about RME, a possible hitch I guess Firewire may not be as common to find in a newer PC these days (which I'm also upgrading). Do you know if USB is really as reliable as some claim when using many I/O simultaneously, say like if maximizing UFX as a mixer and recording simultaneously.  
    #6
    rumleymusic
    Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1533
    • Joined: 2006/08/23 18:03:05
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 15:03:48 (permalink)
    I run my UFX via USB.   One of the first things I did was record all 30 channels at 192kHz for about an hour. The thing didn't even break a sweat, let alone use up even a fraction of the USB bandwidth at any point.  I even wrote to an external USB hard drive utilizing the same buss.  The latency is comparable to most thunderbolt interfaces as well.  It is all about driver stability.  
     
    The only reason to upgrade to thunderbolt for audio is the need to operate more that 5-6 hundred channels at a time, to daisy chain data, video, and audio devices, or the simple convenience of using a single port.  There is no audio data or "speed" performance advantage.     
     
    That being said, I am very impressed with the dynamic range of the new MOTU's.  Preamps aside, you won't find converter quality with those numbers below Mytek for anywhere near the price.   I have heard reports of the build quality to be cheap and "plastic-y", though.  Like most modern hardware, it utilizes budget over-seas manufacturing.  There is a trade-off for the price.  I wouldn't take it on the road.  

    Daniel Rumley
    Rumley Music and Audio Production
    www.rumleymusic.com
    #7
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 17:43:36 (permalink)
    Thanks Daniel, I appreciate your comments and advice, I guess my of suspicions of USB limitations, or as a toy is somewhat unfounded. While RME UFX may be a little more costly and with only 4 mic pre's, Ill have to add additional mic pre interface(s), it may be worth it in the long run, hate that plasticy look and feel for sure. Hate to bother you more but do you have any experience with Focusrite equipment?  
    #8
    Jim Roseberry
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 9871
    • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
    • Location: Ohio
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 19:34:47 (permalink)
    Focusrite offers pretty good sound/preamps (especially for the cost).
    The only "weaker" area is that they don't yield the lowest round-trip latency.
    Not horrible... just not as low as RME
    If you plan to monitor in realtime thru software based EFX/processing, this is a concern.
    If not... Focusrite is a great value.
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #9
    Splat
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8672
    • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
    • Location: Mars.
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 22:11:43 (permalink)
    I haven't got a bad word to say about Focusrite...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #10
    rumleymusic
    Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1533
    • Joined: 2006/08/23 18:03:05
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 23:00:10 (permalink)
    Hate to bother you more but do you have any experience with Focusrite equipment?

     
    Nothing first hand, sorry.  Their preamps are a better than most like was mentioned.  Though I have always thought hardware "modeling" that they are famous for was rather gimmicky.  

    Daniel Rumley
    Rumley Music and Audio Production
    www.rumleymusic.com
    #11
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 23:25:11 (permalink)
    Thanks all for all the replies, I see Focusrite has a new series, the Clarett coming soon,(in June I believe) with Thunderbolt I/O, with ISA type pre-amps, assumedly a higher standard of pre-amp, (currently limited technical info is available). Then they have the RedNet series of interfaces with Ethernet and other protocols, at a much higher level of sophistication, quality and price range then I may currently need to go to. Yet somewhat similar in nature at least to what new MOTU 8M/AVB systems seems capable of doing in a more simple manner with expansion and networking, plus IOS remote mix control, each device within the cost range of other similar I/O channel count interfaces, too bad their pre-amps performance may be limited.
    #12
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/03 23:44:13 (permalink)
    rumleymusic
    Hate to bother you more but do you have any experience with Focusrite equipment?

     
    Nothing first hand, sorry.  Their preamps are a better than most like was mentioned.  Though I have always thought hardware "modeling" that they are famous for was rather gimmicky.  


    I see that they seem to want to reproduce certain analog sounds, rather than provide the clean signal, as RME do, I was looking at the RME Fireface 802, as an option at a slightly lower cost than UFX. 
    #13
    Jim Roseberry
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 9871
    • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
    • Location: Ohio
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/04 05:17:26 (permalink)
    FWIW, You won't beat the performance of RME.
    They're more expensive than most interfaces... but it's the type of unit that'll be viable for a decade.
     
    If you're looking for absolutely top-tier mic preamps (equivalent to the best outboard units), literally none of the onboard preamps are that level.  
    ie: They're not using eight $1k/channel mic preamps on an audio interface that sells for $500.
    The best onboard mic preamps are pretty decent and pretty quiet.  Certainly useable...
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #14
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/04 12:34:11 (permalink)
    Thanks Jim, I see that, if I want to add more RME mic preamp units, at least in groups of eight, its about the same to double the cost of the UFX interfaces, I guess its still less than high end analog pre-amps may cost, not to mention the mics that meet these standards.  
     
    Cheers  
    #15
    EdwardJ
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/02/26 09:47:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/27 14:33:33 (permalink)
    I own a MOTU 8M and can tell you there is no competition in it's price range, period. 
    I needed to dump my buggy Windows firewire, (MOTU 8pre) and Windows users have limited options.   I thought the 8pre was OK but it wasn't my first choice for anything critical, the MkIII units were a jump up from MkII and I was looking into saving a few bucks by going with a 896MkIII.  I auditioned the Scarlett pro 40 and the pres sounded better than my 8pre, neither one is in the same league as the 8M which if not "pristine" are very usable for most of my needs.  For those other times, well these units play very nicely with others. When my wallet recovers from the 8M I'm thinking of adding a Universal Audio 4-710d. Anyone with experience with this unit? The Thunderbolt equipped Clarett series looks nice but I doubt if windows implementation is even being talked about.
     
    The 8m integrated easily with my system and Sonar X3.  USB implementation is still an issue and thunderbolt is not forthcoming at this time. MOTU is currently working on getting more than 24 channels on USB, which is a limitation.
    The 1248 employs the Cirrus CS5381 ADC and the 8M uses 2 Cirrus CS5361 ADC's per channel.  The gain is 63db for the 1248 and 53db for the 8M. The difference being the employment of V-limiter circuitry.  The DAC's used are the Sabre32 Ultra 8-channel DAC, which I believe you will find in gear costing much more. My biggest complaint is that I'm now hearing things that were not there before, bad things. The emperor indeed has no clothes, and there is nowhere to run, I have to up my game. Not that most of our current population of music consumers , who mostly listen to music on some device, could tell the difference.  
    Latency is 12.3ms using 96/24 and will run for as long as I need it to so far.  Decreasing the buffer size results in bad things. 48/24 is 6ms if needed.  
     
     
    However lots of other units do around the same thing for around the same price, so what sets these units apart? AVB. You control your unit with a web ap from any networked device. Live mixing from you ipad anywhere in the hall?  This starts putting ideas of bringing your unit out on the road. Build quality appears to be the same as most other MOTU units, all metal case, plastic front knobs. If that is you idea of cheap and plastic-y, no worries, it's just different than mine. Still would I take it out on the road? No, not at this time, but perhaps for a live recording in the future. 
    AVB uses ethernet and it is how you get your updates. I'm using Linux right now run it all . Not being platform dependent is sweet.
    The software is wonderful, intuitive and has yet to crash.  The DSP can be inserted where you wish taking a load off of your CPU and perhaps a bit better quality than what Sonar is offering (subjective).  Routing has never been easier. It was literally open it up and start to use it. Using the ADAT banks you can link  MOTU or other units.  If you happen to be on the Mac side, you even get AVB audio interfacing and linking. For large facilities, teaching institutions and such it could come in very handy. 
    #16
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/27 19:24:50 (permalink)
    Thanks for feedback, in some ways positive for 8m/1248, although not sure I like the part about hearing "bad things" particularly if meaning "recording" bad things, possibly as opposed to just hearing them? I don't know anything really about implementing or using Linux, so stuck with Windows, unless I learn a different DAW. I'm having problems getting newest Intel 8 core CPU system (X99 chipset) that supports Thunderbolt 2 PCIe interface, at least ASUS doesn't currently support their own TB2 card, on their own X99 motherboards, despite saying their Thunderbolt ready. (ASUS support told me they don't support as they haven't been tested yet? just on older CPU/motherboards, sounds suspicious think they would take 2 minutes and plug one in and see if it worked?). My current PC is 4 core, but only has PCI, not PCIe.
    Corresponding with RME, (and other comments here) they're quite adamant Ill have no issues with their USB 2 speed/channels, or future USB 3 compatibility using their FPGA/drivers, nor should I with Mic-pre's or AD/DA convertors, I think Ill pay the price and go with the RME, hoping USB is adequate, or use the Firewire. 
     
    Cheers   
    #17
    EdwardJ
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/02/26 09:47:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/27 20:57:45 (permalink)
    I currently running a 4770K on a Z87 board. I have a new gigabyte thunderbolt Z97 and 4790K waiting to build out, no real need for an 8 core for the foreseeable future.  With hard drives being so cheap I just got a couple to make a multiboot system.  Windows audio is prone to pops, clicks and plain old crapping out. I've found a clean install with only needed drivers, no other applications and no internet works best for Sonar X3.  As for Linux, it's practically internet bulletproof so it's our browser, email and most other aps, but not my DAW. I also have all of the Windows aps I can't live without on a third drive, however as time goes by, the beautiful simplicity of Linux is something to see.  For example a 2G mp4 file takes a bit to transfer in Windows over to a USB 3.0 stick. Certainly not even close to advertised transfer rates. On Ubuntu it was a matter of seconds and done, unbelievable. Not only that but you can try it out using a USB stick and run it from there, no messing with your current system. The only issue I have is when I switch, windows can't remember what the correct time is.  Did I mention it's FREE? The Ubuntu Studio distro is pretty cool to check out. 
     
    No doubt about RME having great drivers and superb quality. I'm sure the pres are better, but not something I need at that price point. The Octamic XTC is almost twice the price of the 8M, so comparisons are somewhat limited. I'm on a project studio budget and look for best price/performance ratio. The RME units have more mature drivers and the preamps are superior but the 8M does so much more.  
     
    What I meant by "bad things" was that details not heard before are now apparent.  It was quite a difference and I was surprised. It is as if I wasn't hearing everything before. It took mic placement optimization session and a bit more room treatment but the results are stunning. Is it deutsche grammophon quality? Of course not, but you could certainly broadcast it without anyone telling you you should have used a Micstacy.
    #18
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/28 00:14:37 (permalink)
    Hey, thanks I should have been looking at GB, guess I was thinking to get most current series and multi core/thread capacity when I upgrade my PC, to last me a while, I now see Gigabyte X99 series (using Intel 5960X CPU $$$) are supporting a TB2 PCIe card (but not on board like Z97). RME definitely costs a way lot to expand using their Micstasy, or Octamic, agreeably a lot can be done with MOTU AVB networking and remote control etc. OK now I'm back to being uncertain about interface but more certain of PC configuration :)
    Cheers           
    #19
    EdwardJ
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/02/26 09:47:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/28 11:09:28 (permalink)
    I might be a bit on the bleeding edge here with hoping that Thunderbolt will ever work on a PC.  I'm not sure what kind of game Intel is playing with Apple and Microsoft but the I'm thinking the mobo manufacturers were not amused given the lack of TB silicone on the current X99's.  On the other side, the audio community has a real conundrum . For the most part they have been telling us there is no need for speeds beyond USB 2.0 , which tops out at @ 480mbps even though USB 3.0 offers 10X that speed. I've heard the "they are trying to appeal to consumers with USB 2.0 only." arguement against USB3.0 . I call BS, I've had USB 3 for several years now and so will those who do what we do. I've heard of RME getting 64 in and 64 out using USB 2 , yet they have come out with the first USB 3.0 . I was surprised when MOTU introduced their new line with only USB 2 , perhaps they are waiting for 3.1 to roll out.  Things tend to move slowly and can take years to settle out.    
    #20
    JohnEgan
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 543
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 10:03:57
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/02/28 23:28:24 (permalink)
    Some X99 (ASUS) now seem to include a 2 port USB 3.1 PCIe card, I think this is just recent, Z97, 2 onboard, @ 10 G/sec, I guess their battling it out and trying edge out TB it seems, I'm not sure if USB do the 4K video stuff yet. I guess its hard for audio interface industry to keep changing designs with PC world, where nothing is static/stable week to week, at least USB is backward compatible so far, Firewire may still adapt with TB I believe. I saw the RME MADI interface with USB 3.0, 394 I/O @ 192k, oddly now cant seem to now access info on RME site. Does the gaming world, (mostly driving high end PC market) really need USB 3.1, to connect game controllers, and/or mouse and keyboards, (or even recording interfaces). I'm not sure who 3.1 caters to even right now, they surely don't need TB to do this anyways, and apparently not too concerned about shares of some recording industry trends. Maybe recording interfaces should all be including an ETHERNET I/O to be more consistent, I think I read the MOTU may allow ETHERNET port to act as the DAW interface also?
    In my case at this time, if USB 2.0 can cleanly do even 16 I/O simultaneously, I would be more than OK, in my home studio, (while also using other USB ports for MIDI devices, and other peripherals). If I had the TB option on PC and interface though, I would for sure use the TB interface.
    AS a note since I recently installed an SSD as main drive for OS and Sonar to run on I rarely now have any audio issues I had using HDD, like clicks, drop outs or crashes etc.. as you've mentioned, recording or processing/mixing many tracks and FX. (@ 96Khz).
     
    Cheers
    #21
    EdwardJ
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/02/26 09:47:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: MOTU 8M - Thunderbolt interface 2015/03/01 10:59:35 (permalink)
    4K video would be a reason to get the x99 for sure. I know for what limited video I do (cyberlink powerdirector) it was a big jump in reducing rendering time when I switched to the 4770K.  My feeling is firewire is at the mercy of Apple, it will die when they kill it. USB  3.1 is going to be worth it just because you will now have a less than 95% chance of plugging it in backwards. MOTU already allows the ethernet port to act as the audio interface, on a Mac that is.  We currently have 24 channels i/o, so that's a good start and many more are coming soon as MOTU has stated it is priority #1 on the windows side. A small SSD drive might be a good idea for tracking, no need to use it for storage, so you could get away without having to spend too much, good idea.
    #22
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1