Anderton
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/06 20:33:50
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Jeff Evans
Craig's approach sounds great but still involves clips being split. And the moment you split clips you really have to check how things sound over the boundaries. Longhand, in real time. There is still no quick way. You will have to reconsolidate the file too. True, but I'm assuming the need to cut out the space between words. If all you want to do is reduce breaths, you can just drag across the breath, set up a keyboard shortcut to call up the gain DSP process, and hit okay...done. You can get away with this in SONAR because the gain DSP setting will persist. I think this is pretty similar to what you do with an audio editor.
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John T
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/06 21:26:01
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Jeff Evans
John I know they don't want this but I have found from experience that dropping breaths down by 10 dB works really well. (no clip splitting required hence no fades required either. You could drop them down by 30 db as well) Once some compression is added to tighten up and level out the VO the breaths don't come up in volume at all but they are barely there but still keep the VO natural sounding.
That's what I intend to sell them on, if I can. Jeff EvansAnd there is NO quick or automatic way to do it either. You have to edit the VO all the way through manually to get the perfect result.
Agree, though I've experimented a bit, and if I was allowed to reduce breath sounds rather than completely cut them, I can get quite a lot to work automatically, with a combination of gating and Izotope Breath Control, and just manually fix the instances that don't work. With the hard gate, you end up with so many that don't work, you don't save any time. But with a gentler ducking on breath sounds, I've been getting a pretty good yield.
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Grem
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 07:54:28
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I keep thinking about that 30hr session coming up!! That's a "lot" of editing. Depending on how much each individual makes a breath sound, you are still talking about a lot of time just listening to make sure.
My perfectionism would kick in and.i would spend hundreds of hours on this!! I'd loose money for sure.
Grem
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John T
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 09:40:12
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Well....
It has to be listened to, as part of the job is spotting errors, it turns out (I didn't realise this initially).
However, you can scroll through the wave and easily identify breaths visually, so the initial removal step can be quite quick. I've found that on a half hour wave, I might miss two or three breaths, and might delete two or three things that look like breaths but aren't. So I've got that part down fairly quick and error-free now.
Second step is just playing the thing back and tweaking any timing issues that appear, and making a note of any differences with the text.
I think I can get it down to being 2.5 to 3 times as many work hours as the length of the original material. Not knowing anyone else who does this, though, I've no idea whether that's good or bad.
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Anderton
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 09:45:54
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John T
I think I can get it down to being 2.5 to 3 times as many work hours as the length of the original material. Not knowing anyone else who does this, though, I've no idea whether that's good or bad.
That seems pretty good if you're listening to and editing everything on a breath-by-breath basis.
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g_randybrown
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 10:23:16
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I feel a little intimidated giving advice to the big hitters in this thread but whenever I record VOs I have the talent about a foot away from the mic which seems to cut back breath noise tremendously (and then I later eq as needed).
That said, admittedly in my case I almost invariably add a music bed which masks the breath even more.
I'm certainly not suggesting a music bed but wondering if your talent is less than a foot (30 cm) from the mic.
If so would the breath noise be acceptable to your client if it's not "in your face".
And all that said, I would imagine you've already considered my suggestion but didn't see it mentioned in this thread.
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Anderton
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 10:26:20
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g_randybrown
I feel a little intimidated giving advice to the big hitters in this thread
You should never feel that way. "Heavy hitters" get where they are by learning from others, and often that knowledge is of the "why didn't I think of that?" variety.
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g_randybrown
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 10:31:50
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Anderton
g_randybrown
I feel a little intimidated giving advice to the big hitters in this thread
You should never feel that way. "Heavy hitters" get where they are by learning from others, and often that knowledge is of the "why didn't I think of that?" variety.
Thanks "Babe", that means a lot to me especially coming from you!
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mettelus
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 11:49:09
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It seems that John has zero control over the actual tracking itself so is left to contend with what he is given.
In that situation it is pretty much a given to have to listen to the entire VO almost twice, once for detection and the other to verify corrections. Another advantage to an editor (depending on which one) is the ability to adjust playback speed more easily. The average person can hear three times faster than they can speak, so the wave file can be left visually the same just played back quicker.
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g_randybrown
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 11:55:52
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It seems that John has zero control over the actual tracking itself so is left to contend with what he is given. Oh... I somehow missed that 
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John T
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/07 12:15:14
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Yeah, I'm just getting what I'm given. The recording isn't terrible, but there are some things I would have got better at source, given the chance.
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Grem
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/08 11:07:22
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May do like you were talking about and give a "tactful request!" [edit] I know when I get my wife in front of a mic she sings totally different than she did before standing in front of the mic. Maybe the recording engineer just sticks a mic there and says "Stand on this piece of tape and just read" fully knowing the problems that will be recorded. He's more interested in getting the quality if the voice, instead of getting a great recording.
post edited by Grem - 2015/03/08 11:19:00
Grem
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John T
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/08 16:58:06
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Yeah, the material is somewhat under-produced in that sense. My suspicion is that they're using voice talent who are reasonably competent at recording themselves, rather than a reader and a recordist. This means that there are little errors or performance deficiencies that a second pair of ears would have probably spotted on the fly.
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Kylotan
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/09 06:16:52
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Anderton
Kylotan
Having a setting that could generate fade-ins and fade-outs whenever a clip is split would solve this problem, and also my drum editing problem. I believe that Cubase, Reaper, Pro Tools, and Ableton all have this capability.
Please see this post. It's unorthodox, but it's fast and I use this technique all the time to specify fade times when splitting clips. I use this not only for narration, but also when creating sample libraries and need to isolate hits.
The main limitation is that the fade in/out times are the same. I usually do 7 ms (the same amount ADATs did, LOL). Fade times are limited to 100 ms but I've never found that to be an issue.
If you're using Take Lanes, you need to do this with the parent track. It won't work on individual Take Lanes.
I can see how this would work well for making sample libraries. The problem for me is that I never want the clips split on the transient. I want the clips split at some arbitrary point before the transient, a point which I will decide by looking at the multi-track recording, and which needs to apply to several tracks at once. If I split on the transient, then I can't bring late hits back in time to correct them.
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Anderton
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Re: Is there a way to get automatic clip fades when deleting?
2015/03/09 09:32:32
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Kylotan
Anderton
Kylotan
Having a setting that could generate fade-ins and fade-outs whenever a clip is split would solve this problem, and also my drum editing problem. I believe that Cubase, Reaper, Pro Tools, and Ableton all have this capability.
Please see this post. It's unorthodox, but it's fast and I use this technique all the time to specify fade times when splitting clips. I use this not only for narration, but also when creating sample libraries and need to isolate hits.
The main limitation is that the fade in/out times are the same. I usually do 7 ms (the same amount ADATs did, LOL). Fade times are limited to 100 ms but I've never found that to be an issue.
If you're using Take Lanes, you need to do this with the parent track. It won't work on individual Take Lanes.
I can see how this would work well for making sample libraries. The problem for me is that I never want the clips split on the transient. I want the clips split at some arbitrary point before the transient, a point which I will decide by looking at the multi-track recording, and which needs to apply to several tracks at once. If I split on the transient, then I can't bring late hits back in time to correct them.
In the original post about this I said "Set the AudioSnap Threshold to 100 so there are no transients, then add transient markers (Alt+click) where you want to separate words. Then choose Split Beat into Clips..." So really, this has nothing to do with the "snap" aspect of AudioSnap, just the ability to split at the "transient" markers (which may or may not land on transients, based on where you put them). Since you need to apply to several tracks at once, you can do this one track, then place all the transients in the pool. Apply the pool to the other clips and you can split them in the same place. As I said, it's sneaky...but it works.
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