Helpful ReplySyncing Music and Video

Author
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
2015/03/02 21:49:10 (permalink)

Syncing Music and Video

OK, we are shooting a dance video for one of my songs in a couple of weeks.  I want to make sure I am prepared from an audio standpoint and prepare the videographer.
 
We will shoot dancers for the whole song, although we may stop and start again to ensure they all get it right.  After we have the dancing for the whole song, we will shoot various other scenes, close-ups, dance moves, etc. to edit in.
 
So, if we shoot the video is sections and have multiple takes, how do we sync the music and video later.  I'm not asking for very specific tool command in Final Cut of other software—just conceptually how does this work?  I'd hate to be nudging video clips over and over trying to get them in sync.
 
I have some ideas how this should/could work, but I'd rather hear from people who have done this and know the smartest way to go about it.
 
THANKS!

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#1
StarTekh
Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2007
  • Joined: 2004/03/09 12:02:20
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/02 21:57:07 (permalink)
After doing time code "SMPTE " for 25 years im going to sit this one out and see how others manage to sync Sonar/Windows.... to video !
#2
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/02 21:58:34 (permalink)
I have only worked with video in Premiere Pro which has the ability to align video and audio to markers (including stretching). The program is not something to just "jump into" without intense frustration though. Just FYI really, as I presume others can recommend a better work flow.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#3
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/02 22:07:29 (permalink)
Have something like a clapper in a few frames. Anything where you see the sound being made. Do this after every dance. I don't recommend Sonar for this, Vegas is far better suited but it can be done in Sonar.   

Best
John
#4
gbarrett
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 258
  • Joined: 2003/11/18 22:21:25
  • Location: Marco Island, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/02 22:14:07 (permalink)
Make sure your sample and bit rates are exactly the same and you shouldn't have any drift issues. Find out what the final master is to be and always work in that format. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to re-sync every few frames.

A real musician knows the difference between the music and the notes.
#5
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 00:14:16 (permalink)
In premiere pro it is fairly simple although, for the beginner it takes a second to get used to premiere pro.  there is a plugin called Plural eyes by red giant that does an even better job and works in multiple video editing programs.  If all else fails, the old fashion clap or other audio clue still works just fine.
#6
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 07:23:22 (permalink)
Moving to Coffee House.  This is a video editing question... not Sonar.
 
But as you mentioned Final Cut Pro...  it has an automatic multi-cam function that will align multiple video clips to a base audio track. All you need do is ensure the audio is captured by the camera in each clip.  It works very well.
 
Having made it auto-sync all the clips, you can then edit the slow way by looking for good in-out points on each clip, etc,...  or it has a "live" multi-cam editor that will show all the clips tiled and you real time click click click to make cuts as the track plays.  These cuts can then be edited/cleaned up in the usual way, but it makes for very fast multi-cam editing.
 
 
Tip:
When exporting the audio to use for playback...  include some countdown beeps at song tempo before the song starts.  These will act as both a cue for your dancers and also double as a sync reference.   If you leave the beeps running through the song (maybe just include the metronome in the mix) it will help the dancers (depending on the music..)  You replace the playback track with the final mix when you render the final vid.
 
They say a picture is worth a thousand words...
 

post edited by Karyn - 2015/03/03 07:53:39

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#7
Tom Riggs
Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1752
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
  • Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 10:52:39 (permalink)
I found that plugging in the playback device directly into the camera's mic input really helps get a clear audio in the video.
 
I added count in clicks on the playback as well like Karyn recommended. If I was starting a clip in the middle of the song I just started the recording a few bars early to serve as a count in and help to place the clip in the timeline quicker.
 
I do not have any of the paid software so I just setup the main audio input on a track in Blender. then imported each video clip into a new lane and enabled the waveform view. Then I was able to easily move each clip to it appropriate spot in the timeline.
 
Tip: I discovered as I was lining thing up that it was better if the audio waveform on my video clip was a partial sample ahead of the reference audio. It was usually less than a sample ahead but the same amount behind and there was phasing during playback. Of course I would not have included both from the viewers perspective its better if the video is a tiny bit ahead. Just a tiny bit behind and it gets noticeable pretty quickly.
 
It really went pretty quick but it sure would be nice to have it work automatically.

i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed

My Music 
My YouTube
 
#8
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 16:16:42 (permalink)
Karyn, Since I don't know if I should do this in Sonar or not, and since I don't know whether or not to edit the music in Sonar somehow for the purposes of syncing, I think this IS a Sonar question.  It's OK that you moved it, but moving it assumes the answer is not about Sonar function which I don't think has been decided.
 
 

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#9
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 17:33:25 (permalink)
ok,  I can see why it would seem confusing to someone that's not done this before.
 
The way it generally works is...  If you're scoring for film/video, in other words adding sound to pre-existing visuals, then Sonar is a great tool to use and this thread should be in either the Sonar forum or Techniques forum.  You take the edited (or partially edited) video, import it into a Sonar project and add sound/music as required to match the video.
 
But,  when shooting a music vid (which is what you say you're going to be doing) you start with the finished (or mostly finished) audio and shoot video to match it which you then edit and sync to the audio using a video editor.  Sonar is not involved once the finish audio has been exported.
 
Here's one I did earlier...  Actually 2 months ago now, but that's earlier, isn't it?
The song was recorded, mixed and rough mastered on Saturday afternoon.  Then all the video was shot single camera on Sunday afternoon, with playback of the audio track in .MP3 from an iPad.  All the video and the final audio track in .WAV was then loaded into Final Cut for editing.

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#10
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 18:10:09 (permalink)
Karyn, I agree with what you said , but it does assume a traditional approach. A mixed media artist could conceivably take the opposite approach, taking visuals and have them influence the music. Stranger things have been done in the name of art.
#11
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 18:57:12 (permalink)
konradh
OK, we are shooting a dance video for one of my songs in a couple of weeks.  I want to make sure I am prepared from an audio standpoint and prepare the videographer.
 
We will shoot dancers for the whole song, although we may stop and start again to ensure they all get it right.  After we have the dancing for the whole song, we will shoot various other scenes, close-ups, dance moves, etc. to edit in.
 
So, if we shoot the video is sections and have multiple takes, how do we sync the music and video later.  I'm not asking for very specific tool command in Final Cut of other software—just conceptually how does this work?  I'd hate to be nudging video clips over and over trying to get them in sync.
 
I have some ideas how this should/could work, but I'd rather hear from people who have done this and know the smartest way to go about it.
 
THANKS!




Post #10 gives a general description of what is involved in creating a music vid.
 
Post #7 gives specifics of how to do it using Final Cut Pro X, but the principles are the same for any video editor.  Sync all the video clips to a single audio track, then edit as required.
 
To be prepared from an audio standpoint you need a completed track, preferably with count in cues.
The videographer should already be prepared, else find another...
 
 
dubdisciple
Karyn, I agree with what you said , but it does assume a traditional approach. A mixed media artist could conceivably take the opposite approach, taking visuals and have them influence the music. Stranger things have been done in the name of art.

Yes, but it doesn't alter the fact that Sonar isn't a video editor, unless there's something in Braintree that I've missed because I've not downloaded it yet..

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#12
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41704
  • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
  • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 23:04:58 (permalink)
This topic looks tough!  I remember having enough problems just trying to sync the music with the drummer and bass player... 
 


 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#13
SongCraft
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3902
  • Joined: 2007/09/19 17:54:46
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/03 23:17:46 (permalink)
Some folks don't like bands who 'Lipsync' (vocals) and 'Faux-Play' (music instruments).
 
Actually, 'Lip-Syncing' and 'Faux-Playing' happens to be the best, most affordable solution for shooting music videos.  The music will need a count-in to cue the band for the intro. The MP3 player should have a good time counter display and be used in compiling the script and cues for the band, and make sure to record a count-in cue for the faux-players.
 
Disable camera audio, do not record audio to video, use speakers for the band to cue/monitor the music and of course lipsync and faux play their instruments don't panic,  the primary goal is to sync 'Short Visuals' to audio -- original master should be recorded at 16/48 sample rate <> this is the video post production sample rate you should use however, not all video editing software accepts this format (verify the specs)! 
 
Now that the MP3 playback is done, and all the multiple short-scenes (shoots) are complete, syncing to audio is easy enough, particularly so because the scenes are very short segments.
 
First up, the very first thing I do (after the audio is done) is to prepare a Screenplay (A/V Script), You can find examples or templates online, or make your own using MS.Word, OpenOffice (free) or KingSoft Writer (free) ~ include the following columns:  
(1) Time (Minutes/Seconds)
(2) Part (Song Arrangement)  
(3) Lyric (Excerpt)
(4) Scene (Details)
(5) Effects/Props (Details)

Effects/Props (Details)
Explanation -- One example is to use 'Object/Props' on the set, such blue or green sheet of cardboard, which is later used to key-in (overlay an additional image or video) using video editing software Chroma-Key effects. That's just one example of using props and then later keying in effects. Other examples might be the use of special pin-spot lighting (and yes, mag led lights will do), to create for example, Light-Rays. The creative possibilities are endless.... use ingenuity rather than wasting a boatload of money on expensive video hardware/gear.

Time (Timeline)
From the very start, you need to take each step one 'Part' at a time. Take note of the 'Time' for each part of the screenplay, sometimes one part i.e Intro, might have several or more brief scenes, write all the start/end 'Times' down for all of each part on the screenplay sheet (Word format will do, as explained above)! 
 
I specifically use the song as the master guide to write the script, shoot the scenes, sync and edit in the scenes to the song.
 
Disclaimer:
Above post is hurried, no time for finer details, no time for schematics or whatever! 
 
 
#14
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41704
  • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
  • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 05:08:47 (permalink)
Just be careful if you ever do that live! 
 


 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#15
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 14:45:01 (permalink)
SongCraft
Some folks don't like bands who 'Lipsync' (vocals) and 'Faux-Play' (music instruments).
 
Actually, 'Lip-Syncing' and 'Faux-Playing' happens to be the best, most affordable solution for shooting music videos.  The music will need a count-in to cue the band for the intro. The MP3 player should have a good time counter display and be used in compiling the script and cues for the band, and make sure to record a count-in cue for the faux-players.
 
Disable camera audio, do not record audio to video, use speakers for the band to cue/monitor the music and of course lipsync and faux play their instruments don't panic,  the primary goal is to sync 'Short Visuals' to audio -- original master should be recorded at 16/48 sample rate <> this is the video post production sample rate you should use however, not all video editing software accepts this format (verify the specs)! 
 
Now that the MP3 playback is done, and all the multiple short-scenes (shoots) are complete, syncing to audio is easy enough, particularly so because the scenes are very short segments.
 
First up, the very first thing I do (after the audio is done) is to prepare a Screenplay (A/V Script), You can find examples or templates online, or make your own using MS.Word, OpenOffice (free) or KingSoft Writer (free) ~ include the following columns:  
(1) Time (Minutes/Seconds)
(2) Part (Song Arrangement)  
(3) Lyric (Excerpt)
(4) Scene (Details)
(5) Effects/Props (Details)

Effects/Props (Details)
Explanation -- One example is to use 'Object/Props' on the set, such blue or green sheet of cardboard, which is later used to key-in (overlay an additional image or video) using video editing software Chroma-Key effects. That's just one example of using props and then later keying in effects. Other examples might be the use of special pin-spot lighting (and yes, mag led lights will do), to create for example, Light-Rays. The creative possibilities are endless.... use ingenuity rather than wasting a boatload of money on expensive video hardware/gear.

Time (Timeline)
From the very start, you need to take each step one 'Part' at a time. Take note of the 'Time' for each part of the screenplay, sometimes one part i.e Intro, might have several or more brief scenes, write all the start/end 'Times' down for all of each part on the screenplay sheet (Word format will do, as explained above)! 
 
I specifically use the song as the master guide to write the script, shoot the scenes, sync and edit in the scenes to the song.
 
Disclaimer:
Above post is hurried, no time for finer details, no time for schematics or whatever! 
 
 


There is more than one way to skin a cat, but I would advise against disabling recording audio. It severely limits your options. Every production company I ever shot for had me record audio in that situation for the simple fact that it doesn't hurt to have it. With many modern editing software having the ability to sync with little more than a few clicks, I can't see a downside to having the audio. 
 
I take a different approach to shooting music videos for non-live recordings. Although the audio recorded on the camera will not be used, I have the artists sing/play as if it was. Most singers are not good enough actors to bring the same energy to a song when faking it. I keep sound source close to camera so that the dominant audio on my camera will be the track they are singing or playing along to. In fact, when practical, I will run backing track sound source on one channel while onboard mic records other channel. This gives me an instant reference to make sure they did not sing any wrong words since left and right channel would differ. This method is especially effective in headphones. If no mistakes were made i simply mute the live side when syncing, resulting in me simply having to sync the exact same music with itself. The best part about this technique is that even if auto syncing software fails (and it occasionally does) just about anyone can sync wav forms that are identical using sight alone. Once clips are aligned, I simply delete all but my master audio backing track.
#16
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 17:11:03 (permalink)
Thanks everyone, and thanks, Karyn, for replying.  I understand what you are saying and why the thread was moved.  (Didn't bother me—just didn't get it at first. )
 
I was going to make a dub with SMPTE on one channel and mono audio on the other and use a SMPTE clapboard, but the video guy told me that was overkill for a dance video and he could slip the video clips into place.
 
We will record the audio onto the camera while shooting and then add a second audio track in Final Cut with the master audio.  Just to make myself feel better, I am going to put clicks on the front of the audio to ensure we the start of the camera audio with the start of the master audio track.
 
I guess I am so used to having everything locked in place by timecode that the thought of sort of flying stuff in horrified me; but apparently, except for close up lip-sync which won't apply here, it isn't necessary to lock this down so tightly.
 
 

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#17
SongCraft
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3902
  • Joined: 2007/09/19 17:54:46
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 17:15:55 (permalink)
@ Dub
 
I respect and admit your preferred workflow is how its usually done 
 
One of the reasons to disable audio on the camera is because it saves memory -- Now taking that (and above explanation, post #14, ah and post #15 ) into consideration the following....  most independent bands barely have enough money to afford the most basic bare minimum spec hardware/gear (just one camera and some lighting), or pay to have a professional company shoot the video. Equipment hire might be a better option but unless someone in the band with good experience and also familiar with the specific gear (hired), it could turn out to be a waste of time and money. 
 
dubdisciple
 
Most singers are not good enough actors to bring the same energy to a song when faking it
 

 
True, I would advise... don't try to be one of these actors, just be yourself as you would performing at a gig. Seriously though, some musicians can't overcome anxiety/panic attacks, once the camera rolls their anxiety levels are off the charts therefore, either a few drinks (alcohol) or medication taken 'strictly as needed' only once daily may be necessary, with no alcohol.  Also, its a good idea for the band to rehearse their parts (screenplay) before actually shooting the video. Although at times during the video shoot there are still some issues? Okay, lets try this before I roll the camera (but don't always tell them the camera is rolling) hehehe gotcha!
 
In addition to my post #14:
 
It would be wise to 'Test' each set prior to shooting, to ensure for example, the lighting is correct, especially if using Green Screen Cyclorama. If possible, setup a live feed (HDTV or computer monitor) whilst shooting, thereby immediate test results will be viewed.
 
Must have audio cues (lead-in). This is why a Screenplay is important because it will have all the start/end times for each part/scene, those are cues for 'Lipsyncing' and 'Faux Playing'.....  the song will have a count-in for the intro and from there on simply do 'Lead-in' cues (i.e. 16 bars of music)!
 
Make absolutely sure all the actors in the scene are performing in sync before moving onto the next scene.  No matter how experienced, most actors will be required to do the same scene over again until its perfect. Similar to audio recording a musician's performance (DAW), you need to get it right at the source. As I said earlier, actors should rehearse their parts (screenplay)!
 
There is no need for a Hollywood style 'Clapper Board' with digital timeline. A small Chalk Board will do fine.  Aww heck, a lot of independent bands are low budget conscious, they probably don't bother using a Clapper Board lol! Surely those involved will know exactly what part they are doing next prior to shooting the scene..... although, having each scene begin with details and start/end times is not a bad option. This makes managing files easier and ordered-list of video files in the main folder by naming files starting with 000-{file name}-{start/end time}.  And so on. I do this for all my file management i.e Photoshop, except of course without start/end times added.
 
#18
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5849
  • Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
  • Location: Seattle, Wa
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 18:13:51 (permalink)
Songcraft, I believe that with even modest budgets the memory thing is a non-issue when it comes to audio since video files are so much larger.  I can understand the concern, but odds of running short on memory due to audio taking up space is miniscule.  You will run out of video space long before that poses a threat.
 
I rarely use a clapper for music videos. Probably because i hate doing them and try to minimize steps. Generally when I do them it is for local artist and frankly the money is typically not worth it for me.  As stated, I am lucky software generally syncs everything in seconds. Even hand syncing rarely takes me more than few minutes. 
#19
mixmkr
Max Output Level: -43.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3169
  • Joined: 2007/03/05 22:23:43
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 19:43:50 (permalink)
To me, this seems EXTREMELY simple to accomplish IF the song has a constant tempo.  Just play the song (on whatever...boombox, stereo...) and let them dance away.  Then they are dancing to the tempo of the song.
Will it really matter WHAT section of the song they are dancing to?  I'm guessing probably not.  Then all you have to do is import your video clips together and match them up to the tempo of your song.  This way you are not restricted to where the video clips actually have to go.  IOW, you can fade them in/out or put them wherever you want in the vid. 
In doing this, I would recommend highly using a video editing program, AFTER you've finished your audio in Sonar.  Fly the audio track into your video program and then you can slide the video clips around to your hearts delight.
If you can't tell where a beat is just by watching the dancers... they need to wiggle something more obvious!  (plus, it won't have to be exact either... ballpark will be good enuff for rock n roll)

some tunes: --->        www.masonharwoodproject.bandcamp.com 
StudioCat i7 4770k 3.5gHz, 16 RAM,  Sonar Platinum, CD Arch 5.2, Steinberg UR-44
videos--->https://www.youtube.com/user/mixmkr
 
#20
webbs hill studio
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 742
  • Joined: 2006/02/01 02:04:12
  • Location: Buninyong,Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/04 19:48:39 (permalink)
wow
thanks Konradh and everyone involved in this thread.
forget google-I just had a crash course in something I was avoiding as I just didn`t know where to start.
 
cheers
tony 
#21
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3325
  • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/05 16:23:25 (permalink)
mixmkr,
 
Yes they will be dancing to the song.  Here is the issue: Let's say we have video of several different sections of the song.  Then, in the video editor, we add the master music track.  Now, how do we align the little 10 second bit we recorded during verse 2?
 
The editor thinks he can do it just by scooting the video clip back and forth until it aligns with the dancing.  And , of course, we can zoom in and inspect the master audio wave and the live audio wave.
 
I was just looking for a more automated way to do it and a SMPTE clapboard would have been the way to go, but it is too expensive and not needed in this case (they say).  Here's how it works:
 
1-You make a copy of the audio with SMPTE on the left and audio on the right (or vice versa)
2-The SMPTE feeds the clapboard
3- At the start of the scene, the camera records the clapboard and has an exact timecode for aligning to the master audio.
 
That's a simplified explanation and I am no expert, but that's how movies sync dialog overdubs and other events.

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#22
SongCraft
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3902
  • Joined: 2007/09/19 17:54:46
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/05 16:41:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2015/03/05 16:46:27
konradh
Thanks everyone, and thanks, Karyn, for replying.  I understand what you are saying and why the thread was moved.  (Didn't bother me—just didn't get it at first. )
 
I was going to make a dub with SMPTE on one channel and mono audio on the other and use a SMPTE clapboard, but the video guy told me that was overkill for a dance video and he could slip the video clips into place.
 
We will record the audio onto the camera while shooting and then add a second audio track in Final Cut with the master audio.  Just to make myself feel better, I am going to put clicks on the front of the audio to ensure we the start of the camera audio with the start of the master audio track.
 
I guess I am so used to having everything locked in place by timecode that the thought of sort of flying stuff in horrified me; but apparently, except for close up lip-sync which won't apply here, it isn't necessary to lock this down so tightly.
 
 




You're welcome.
 
Sorry,, I didn't see your post until after I posted (we posted about the same time) LOL!
 
konradh: Video guy told me that was overkill for a dance video and he could slip the video clips into place.
 
Exactly!
 
Does appear your intended workflow is simple enough that it won't require much of a script (if any) other than personal notes and no timecode.  Like I said, syncing scenes to the music (digital format) of course is easy
 
.... though I can assure you its nothing at all like it was years ago when syncing video (tape) to audio (tape -beta) working with 50 scenes (more or less) without software nor hardware (video editor). That is exactly the workflow for my earliest co-produced music video that aired nationally on ABC TV (RAGE) and SBS TV (Street Noise) Australia. I (and the others in the band) were also interviewed on TV in regards to the song and making of the music video. One of the musicians who co-produced the video has it uploaded on YouTube, but its a poor copy and conversion (visual/audio quality is poor), if you want to see it? Send me a PM.
 
For writers/musicians, these are great times for the do-it-all (or just about all) yourself.
 
Everyone has their own mindset approach (workflow) for whatever they feel comfortable with. I always see forums as an Open House Policy lol  my posts included additional info' to cover just about all bases, intended for whomever happens to stumble on this topic :-)
 
Wish you great success!
#23
mixmkr
Max Output Level: -43.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3169
  • Joined: 2007/03/05 22:23:43
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/05 19:31:57 (permalink)
konradh
mixmkr,
 
Yes they will be dancing to the song.  Here is the issue:.............SNIP
 
The editor thinks he can do it just by scooting the video clip back and forth until it aligns with the dancing.  And , of course, we can zoom in and inspect the master audio wave and the live audio wave.
 
I was just looking for a more automated way to do it...............SNIP

I thought that way was actually pretty easy.  Striping code and all that stuff, of course works well too.
 
 
I do that for dialog too.  ..basically on all my *homebrew* YouTubes.  The audio in the camera is my "SMPTE", which makes my "Sonar" audio easy to slide into its' correct sync.  Waveform zoom is my friend.  But I understand feeling comfortable with a personal system to do things as well.  Good luck with the dancers!  Hope they wiggle good!

some tunes: --->        www.masonharwoodproject.bandcamp.com 
StudioCat i7 4770k 3.5gHz, 16 RAM,  Sonar Platinum, CD Arch 5.2, Steinberg UR-44
videos--->https://www.youtube.com/user/mixmkr
 
#24
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/05 23:17:49 (permalink)
Hi Konrad
 
You mentioned Final Cut again when talking about your video guy...  Final Cut will auto-sync the video clips, even if only 3 seconds long, using the camera recorded sound and the master audio.  It really isn't an issue.
 
If it struggles to tell the difference between chorus1 and chorus2 because all EDM sounds the same* then you just help it by moving the clip to roughly the right place and tell it to try again.
 
If you really want a SMPTE backup plan, you don't need a SMPTE clapper board.  You create your own by loading the audio into the video editor and outputting a video file of the whole thing, including 5 or 10 seconds lead in, where the video is simply time code in hh:mm:ss:ff filling the full width of the screen in BIG characters.
You then just use that on an iPad or other tablet for the audio playback and wave it at the camera like you would a SMPTE clapper.
When you come to edit,  every clip has a frame accurate reference regardless of where in the song it was started.  You just pick a frame where you can read the time code and slip it to the same point on the timeline.
 
 
 
* You know I'm joking I hope.

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#25
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 12010
  • Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
  • Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/06 00:22:17 (permalink)
What a great primer this thread is for video production on this scale. Interesting thing is I think it would scale up to a much bigger production. Does that make sense?

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz.
Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2.
Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub.
Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX.
Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor.
Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
#26
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: Syncing Music and Video 2015/03/06 09:07:45 (permalink)
It would make more sense to say this is a greatly simplified version of how big pictures are made,  but the methods are mostly the same so it does scale up.

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#27
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1