Ricebug
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Massive, Unexplained Clipping
I recorded some vocal tracks this morning. No problems. Previewed some other in-progress stuff. Again, no problem. Now, all of a sudden, Sonar is clipping all over the place--the entire mix on any song is terribly distorted. If I shut off my audio interface and turn it back on, the problem goes away. However, as the song plays it steadily begins picking up more and more static and noise, until it reaches a point where it's no longer distinguishable as music. The only thing new that I've added to the setup is Addictive Drums 2. However, why would this make old mixes behave this way?
Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
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Beepster
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/11 15:22:02
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The clipping only started after you added an instance or AD2? You may want to look at those tracks then and what is being outputted/recieved by it. If that is not the case... what interface are you using?
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Beepster
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/11 15:25:00
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Also if it is AD2... just multiselect the audio outputs tracks, hold Ctrl and turn down the Gain (either the fader in the Track View/Track Pane or at the top of the Console strips).
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brundlefly
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/11 17:56:07
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Are you sure it's clipping distortion, or is it just that a lot of buffers are getting dropped (i.e. severe crackles)? Your description sounds more like the latter. Or are you actually seeing track/bus masters going over 0dB? If it is a case of the crackles, you're either running too low a buffer, or something is suddenly inducing a lot of DPC latency (e.g. wireless networking enabled). Is the load balancing nicely across all CPU cores? Some plugins can really hit the first core hard.
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Ricebug
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/11 19:26:46
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It doesn't just happen with AD2, but with any project. It could be a single instrument playing Twinkle, Twinkle. @brundlefly: It's not a decible problem. I'm beginning to suspect wireless networking as the culprit, although I don't know why that would affect Sonar. At any rate, the problem has suddenly disappeared after doing a reboot. Since you brought it up, I can have my buffers set at 4096 and Sonar still gives me the ol' low buffer warning.
Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
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Wouter Schijns
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/11 19:31:39
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I've had a simular situation with adding a reverb to a project. After some testing I'm starting to think an excess on 20.000 + frequencies is too much for Sonar or my soundcard. A lower sample rate and higher buffers make it stay away longer. Maybe you could filter out 20.000 hz and higher on masterbus and see if it goes away..
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/11 20:22:38
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Wi-Fi adapters/drivers are NOTORIOUS for inexplicably jacking up DPC Latency, and many folks resolve this by turning off or disabling their Wi-Fi just before launching a Sonar session, then turning it back on or enabling again right after finishing the Sonar session. Give that a shot and post back, please - there certainly may be other things happening, but the above is an easy place to start. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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promidi
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 05:23:58
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I am going to go out on a limb here are suggest the possibility of a faulty sound output device. As a quick, temporary test, are you able to switch to your on-board (or any other alternative) sound card and play a project you know would have made the clipping distortion manifest. If your test project plays without distortion then, it might appear you might have a faulty sound output device.
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mettelus
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 05:38:53
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Buffers is not a "fire and forget" thing. They can require adjustment, and can also be set too high as well as too low. They often have a sweet spot that is specific for the system and task.
Where is SONAR giving you a low buffer warning? Melodyne?
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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Ricebug
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 09:31:51
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@mettelis: Yep. It's always Melodyne. @promidi: Unfortunately, I only have the one interface (AKAI EIE Pro). The computer doesn't have a decent soundcard. And, the problem has went away with a reboot. @The Bone: I'm going to take that advice to heart and start yanking that WIFI adapter. Perhaps one of these days, all this technology can get homogenized so as to avoid such problems.
Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
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promidi
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 10:10:04
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With the distortion as bad as it appears to be, even if you don't have a decent soundcard, I would still try it as a test so you can at least see if the problem is Sonar or your AKAI EIE Pro. If the distortion remains when using the sound card, then , I'm afraid, it looks like it could be a faulty AKAI EIE Pro. It's worth the test, even if to eliminate the AKAI EIE Pro
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brundlefly
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 10:44:34
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Ricebug AKAI EIE Pro 96khz digital interface
Are you actaully running that interface at 96kHz? If so, and if this happens again, you should try lowering it to 48kHz. The extra CPU and disk load of running a higher sample rate could be contributing to the problem.
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CoteRotie
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 11:19:53
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brundlefly
Ricebug AKAI EIE Pro 96khz digital interface
Are you actaully running that interface at 96kHz? If so, and if this happens again, you should try lowering it to 48kHz. The extra CPU and disk load of running a higher sample rate could be contributing to the problem.
That's a good point, the EIE may not be able to handle the I/O, making it an EIEIO problem.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 11:54:10
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Ricebug
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 12:13:55
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After perusing the AKAI EIE Pro's docs, it appears that the sampling rates (44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz) are at the USB end, meaning, it's software dependent. IOW, there's no switch that allows me to manually change the sampling rate; it's whatever Sonar is feeding it. I have Sonar set at CD quality.
Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
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brundlefly
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 12:18:31
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See the Default Sampling Rate setting in Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings.
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mettelus
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 14:28:13
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CoteRotie [...] making it an EIEIO problem.
I am still laughing from this one! Back to the OP... the Melodyne warning was mentioned in a thread long ago (which I can never find again for some reason) as a workaround during beta testing that was subsequently fixed (i.e., no longer necessary). Most users adjust buffers as needed and ignore that window, including myself. I have used Melodyne with very low buffers and not had issues. After I typed the below, something else occurred to me. If you hit the global effects bybass ("E") does it improve playback any? Is CPU spiking on any core during playback? Both of these can indicate plugin issues. Below is more interface ideas. A couple ideas came to mind, first is the audio buffers... I am not sure how invasive Windows is with AKAI drivers, but can try this: - Hit the Windows button and type in "Change sound card settings"
- Select the AKAI and then properties on the "Playback Tab" and match the "Default format" to what is currently in that project.
- Repeat Step 2 on the Recording tab.
- Open SONAR, and under Edit->Preferences->Audio->Driver Settings click on the ASIO Panel tab and set that number to something less aggressive (like 256 or even 512).
The other idea is accessing data on the disks. While still in SONAR Preferences, click the "Advanced" button at the bottom and then go to "Audio->Sync and Caching." In the "File system" near the bottom, bump both the playback and record I/O buffers up to 512KB. If you are not seeing actual clipping (pegged meters on playback), it seems more like the above are the culprits.
post edited by mettelus - 2015/03/12 14:37:17
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Ricebug
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 17:54:38
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Looks like the AKAI EIE PRO interface is the culprit. According to my Google research, the drivers are bad and AKAI is more interested in their big dollar hardware. They recommended going back to the old drivers, which I did. Also did a firmware update. No good. Now the mixes are just static and noise. Looks like a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 is in my immediate future.
Sonar Platinum / AMD 5 ghz 8-core CPU w/8 GB RAM / nVidia GTX-780 graphics / Roland A-500Pro MIDI keyboard / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface / Komplete 9 Ultimate / Melodyne Essential / Digitech Vocalist Live Pro/ Roland MSGS synth module / Rode NT2 microphone / an understanding wife
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mettelus
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Re: Massive, Unexplained Clipping
2015/03/12 18:05:15
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I am not familiar with the AKAI line at all, but one thing that stuck out for me was that they recommended ASIO4ALL for their low-end hardware (there was a post regarding this a few months back which shocked me). This threw up a red flag for me as many people's experiences (including mine) with ASIO4ALL is "not good." I am very sorry that you are experiencing this issue, since good drivers are "it" when it comes to an audio interface. This is the same reason I chose to kick M-Audio to the curb a few years back... driver support went south and the unit became worthless to me. I dove into the Focusrite product line a couple years ago based on feedback from this forum and have no regrets whatsoever. I have not used the Scarlett line, but as a brand Focusrite seems to take immense pride in their drivers (what matters most).
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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