Sharke,
 
Of course the many out weigh the few "one in a million" however, in my opinion is still unacceptable because some pharmaceutical corporations appear to not be bothered to do enough (progress) to dramatically lower that number over the past few decades.  Yearly... "One in a Million" may seem like a small number by Australian statistics (Population: 24 million) - Worldwide that's equates to a much higher amount of children dead.  Now the stats in regards to children with mild to severe mental disability is no doubt much higher = 1 in 6. You need to watch that video (post #1) because its based on facts.

In another context -- You said/believe there are two sides to the coin but yet again (twice) provided one-sided reports that omits key-important information.  Corporations do this because they don't want to cause alarm (one of the reasons), and ironically you admit of course there are risks.
 
Sadly, I'm concerned there is not much hope in our lifetime, not near enough incentive (progress) to dramatically reduce the number of deaths. Maybe in another 50 years medical science will finally catch up and all will be fine..... Meanwhile, its business as usual.
 

Are you seriously suggesting that 1 in 6 children are left with brain damage through vaccination?

The bottom line is vaccination saves millions of lives a year and has to be weighed against infant mortality rates which were horrifying before.

Beepster
 
We have recently seen a resurgence of measles here in Canada and one of the larger outbreaks has been directly linked to an anti-vaccination community in Quebec. 

One reason among a thousand why I'm never going back there... Quebec, man. A bit like California, full of hippies and protesters, only not so nice and with crappy weather...
 

Rain

Beepster
 
We have recently seen a resurgence of measles here in Canada and one of the larger outbreaks has been directly linked to an anti-vaccination community in Quebec. 

One reason among a thousand why I'm never going back there... Quebec, man. A bit like California, full of hippies and protesters, only not so nice and with crappy weather...
 

There are certainly some very bizarre pockets of human dysfunction scattered around and the "laissez faire" attitude seems to allow these things to thrive beyond a reasonable point. It really does pit my inner libertarian against my social responsibility idealism.
 
Like I said... I love QC but it is simply too crazy for me to ever consider living there. It's a shame it seems to have run you off from Canada because obviously that is not representative of the entire country... and I've been coast to coast. I mean it's all crazy but it's not all THAT crazy. lol
 
Cheers.

Beepster
 
There are certainly some very bizarre pockets of human dysfunction scattered around and the "laissez faire" attitude seems to allow these things to thrive beyond a reasonable point. It really does pit my inner libertarian against my social responsibility idealism.
 
Like I said... I love QC but it is simply too crazy for me to ever consider living there. It's a shame it seems to have run you off from Canada because obviously that is not representative of the entire country... and I've been coast to coast. I mean it's all crazy but it's not all THAT crazy. lol
 
Cheers.

You have to move out of Quebec for a while to see the depth of indoctrination we're submitted to, the ideas we take for granted and build our whole life around. Takes a while to deconstruct that, because, basically, you're thrown into this imaginary conflict against ROC (Rest of Canada) and Les Anglos at birth.
 
The whole raison d'être of Quebec is (imaginary) emancipation - which is a paradox given that Quebecers are deeply su****ious of emancipation and success on an individual level.
 
That and a quest for identity based solely on language.
 
If a Quebecer visits the US and is asked where he is from, he'll never say Canada, or at least not w/o giving you a 30 minute long history lesson about Quebec and French vs English and all that crap. It's actually quite insane to watch that happening, as I've witnessed it. Never ask a Quebecer where he's from.
 
Personally, I've never been big on nationalism, so even though I had lots of preconceived ideas, it wasn't long before I started feeling estranged. I see friends from Quebec posting on Facebook and I'm past the point of even trying to discuss. They're too deep in...
 
My heart found its home in this country, and I'm actually a lot more in line w/ values which are the exact opposite of all the liberal, socialist way of thinking. Before we got the green card, we'd decided that if we were forced to go back, we'd go to B.C. or anywhere but Quebec. 
 
Anyway, we've become exactly what they are thought to hate from the cradle on...

The point of my discussion is based on absolute honesty because I believe this topic is very important. Please 'Take Care' 
 
Vaccinations do have the potential to cause death, more deaths than people care to know.  I know this because I have doctors reports and another report in regards to Luke's death.  I'm sure millions of people have such reports that proves beyond doubt (corporate corruption)!
 
My wife got the flu shot, about six weeks later (early this year) she got the flu; she got very ill, fever, chills and frequent coughs that lasted for about two weeks.  Whereas I did not get the vaccination and did not get the flu (I explained in previous posts about prevention)! There are alternative preventative measures, sadly many don't adhere to. The other concern is that, In Australia they want to make vaccinations mandatory, of course this has sparked a lot of controversy. Controversy is, a lot of doctors know that some people are at high risks of death!
 
If people refuse to believe that?
I feel sad for them, don't get sucked into false-comfort, the point is, 'Take Care' i.e. ask the doctor questions regarding medical history including preexisting conditions and relatives i.e. anyone you know who has died. Please take these precautions before taking the shot.  There is alternative preventative care.  Anyway, this is what I'm saying, nothing personal, just being thoughtful because I would hate to find out that someone here died due to multi-vaccination. It can happen.
 
It's unwise to promote false-comfort.
 
So let me remind everyone that Help tags similar to Star ratings can be abused.
 
http://insider.foxnews.co...ty-mcquestion-dies-flu
 

NOTE: The forum software has been glitching on this post, I've had to repost, reedit the link.
 
 
 

sharke
Rain, I feel much the same about this country now, it's not perfect but aside from its problems it does embody the free-wheeling principles of individual freedom and self-responsibility that have always bubbled away inside of me. I don't feel any allegiance at all to the UK, as much as I love it's natural beauty and certain aspects of the British character (like the humor).

When I first got here I lived on Nantucket for a year and was immediately impressed by how many people had built their own house, and took their own trash to the dump etc. Little things like that, lol....

My wife actually ended up feeling bitter as she realized just how much she'd been held back. If you try and stand out in Quebec, you only get a slap on the wrist and a collective "Who does she think she is?"
 
As a singer and a performer, she was quickly labeled "too intense" for the masses, despite being recognized because of a couple of platinum musicals. She didn't fit with the herd mentality - she's way too strong and proud. Quebecers like cute, humble, victims types.
 
Metal fans loved her. And gays - because they have a taste for all things extravagant, they adored her as the next big diva. Actually, there's one guy that does an impersonation/lip synch number... That's kinda weird, you know. lol
 
When we were building the case for the green card, we realized that if you could do such a thing as translate her accomplishments to US equivalents, we'd probably be hanging around at Bon Jovi's place or having tea with the Osbournes.
 
But hatred for ambition and that obsession for french back home just limited her options so much. You can't just say "I"ll take my chance on Broadway" back home. Thinking big is the ultimate sin.
 
 

dubdisciple
Sharke, now you see why it is pointless to attempt a rational discussion on this type of issue. People who are convinced of such things tend to take it highly personal that you don't believe the same propoganda they do. I have yet to find one piece of evidence linking autism to vaccines. You will always find a total quack doctor who will sign off on anything from penis growth pills to fake cancer cures to make money. Digging deeper always exposes that quack for what he is. There is ZERO replicable data showing a link. It is possible in the sense that anything is possible, but merely being possible is not proof. Anecdotes are never accompanied by evidence either and generally rely on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority( and that aiauthority is typically a total quack). The simple proven fact is that eyewitness testimony is the very worst form of evidence. Humams tend to relay what they believe rather than what is. I'm really glad things like polio and smallpox were mostly wiped out before the internet gave voice to such thngs.
 

I love it when people cite their own personal experience - one single data point of anecdotal evidence - as proof that the overwhelming evidence to the contrary is false. To be honest I don't want to be too harsh on someone who has genuinely lost someone dear to them and has centered their whole viewpoint upon this, but at the same time people with an emotionally charged data point of experience are probably the least likely to approach the subject rationally. 

Rain

sharke
Rain, I feel much the same about this country now, it's not perfect but aside from its problems it does embody the free-wheeling principles of individual freedom and self-responsibility that have always bubbled away inside of me. I don't feel any allegiance at all to the UK, as much as I love it's natural beauty and certain aspects of the British character (like the humor).

When I first got here I lived on Nantucket for a year and was immediately impressed by how many people had built their own house, and took their own trash to the dump etc. Little things like that, lol....

My wife actually ended up feeling bitter as she realized just how much she'd been held back. If you try and stand out in Quebec, you only get a slap on the wrist and a collective "Who does she think she is?"
 
As a singer and a performer, she was quickly labeled "too intense" for the masses, despite being recognized because of a couple of platinum musicals. She didn't fit with the herd mentality - she's way too strong and proud. Quebecers like cute, humble, victims types.
 
Metal fans loved her. And gays - because they have a taste for all things extravagant, they adored her as the next big diva. Actually, there's one guy that does an impersonation/lip synch number... That's kinda weird, you know. lol
 
When we were building the case for the green card, we realized that if you could do such a thing as translate her accomplishments to US equivalents, we'd probably be hanging around at Bon Jovi's place or having tea with the Osbournes.
 
But hatred for ambition and that obsession for french back home just limited her options so much. You can't just say "I"ll take my chance on Broadway" back home. Thinking big is the ultimate sin.
 
 

The same is true about the UK to some extent. The negativity gets you down. I wonder if the weather has something to do with it, lol. There's often a strong element of animosity toward success in Britain. Exactly the same as you describe in Quebec. Who does he think he is. I remember years ago wearing shades on a sunny winter day in Newcastle, because, well, it was bright....and the looks I got walking through the city center. Someone actually called me a "tosser." Things have probably changed a little since then but not that much. I still have some great friends back in the UK but it's sad to see some have condemned themselves to a life of drinking, watching TV and moaning about life on Facebook. And I've had my share of animosity because of where I am now and what I'm doing. I have a couple of friends who tell me about things people have said behind my back when the subject of me came up in conversation. First of all I'm willingly living in the Great Satan, America. There is this huge well of hatred against the US in Europe. And most of them get their whole view of America from things they've seen on TV and read on right-on blogs. Anything but actually live here and experience for themselves. If I try to set them straight on certain issues they just accuse me of having been "brainwashed by Faux News." I'm no fan of Fox News, but they say that without having seen it for themselves - it's just become a slogan by which anyone in Europe takes a swipe at Americans. 
 
Not too long ago I said something on Facebook which someone I'd been friends with for 20 years without a cross word disagreed with, and he launched into this tirade of abuse about how I should never come home because nobody wanted me here and how I should just stay in the US with my "fortune" (I'm not rich at all, just mildly comfortable, but to a 40 year old who by choice has never worked in his life like this guy, I'm a millionaire apparently). And if you do have success here, there are some who refuse to believe that it's through your own hard work. Apparently you've just exploited the fact that America has raped the rest of the world and are sharing in its ill-gotten wealth. Meanwhile they sit at home "on the sick" with some vaguely identified and impossible to diagnose "condition" (usually some variant of "my head isn't in the right place") which has meant they've never worked since they left school, and they're adamant that their financial situation is the result of the "system" being against them 
 
There's a British psychiatrist who writes under the name of Theodore Dalrymple and he wrote a great book called "Life At The Bottom" which explains in great detail (often very humorously but tragically at the same time) how the great British spirit has been destroyed by the welfare system and replaced with a culture of complaining and whining. Each chapter was published on the City Journal website and I found this page which helpfully links to them in the order they are in the book. Have a read if you get time. I recognize so much about attitudes in my home country here, and found myself laughing out loud even though it's sad at the same time. You might recognize some of your own home country in here too: https://winteryknight.wor...tom-online-for-free-2/

sharke
 
 
The same is true about the UK to some extent. The negativity gets you down. I wonder if the weather has something to do with it, lol. There's often a strong element of animosity toward success in Britain. Exactly the same as you describe in Quebec. Who does he think he is. I remember years ago wearing shades on a sunny winter day in Newcastle, because, well, it was bright....and the looks I got walking through the city center. Someone actually called me a "tosser." Things have probably changed a little since then but not that much. I still have some great friends back in the UK but it's sad to see some have condemned themselves to a life of drinking, watching TV and moaning about life on Facebook. And I've had my share of animosity because of where I am now and what I'm doing. I have a couple of friends who tell me about things people have said behind my back when the subject of me came up in conversation. First of all I'm willingly living in the Great Satan, America. There is this huge well of hatred against the US in Europe. And most of them get their whole view of America from things they've seen on TV and read on right-on blogs. Anything but actually live here and experience for themselves. If I try to set them straight on certain issues they just accuse me of having been "brainwashed by Faux News." I'm no fan of Fox News, but they say that without having seen it for themselves - it's just become a slogan by which anyone in Europe takes a swipe at Americans. 
 
Not too long ago I said something on Facebook which someone I'd been friends with for 20 years without a cross word disagreed with, and he launched into this tirade of abuse about how I should never come home because nobody wanted me here and how I should just stay in the US with my "fortune" (I'm not rich at all, just mildly comfortable, but to a 40 year old who by choice has never worked in his life like this guy, I'm a millionaire apparently). And if you do have success here, there are some who refuse to believe that it's through your own hard work. Apparently you've just exploited the fact that America has raped the rest of the world and are sharing in its ill-gotten wealth. Meanwhile they sit at home "on the sick" with some vaguely identified and impossible to diagnose "condition" (usually some variant of "my head isn't in the right place") which has meant they've never worked since they left school, and they're adamant that their financial situation is the result of the "system" being against them 
 
There's a British psychiatrist who writes under the name of Theodore Dalrymple and he wrote a great book called "Life At The Bottom" which explains in great detail (often very humorously but tragically at the same time) how the great British spirit has been destroyed by the welfare system and replaced with a culture of complaining and whining. Each chapter was published on the City Journal website and I found this page which helpfully links to them in the order they are in the book. Have a read if you get time. I recognize so much about attitudes in my home country here, and found myself laughing out loud even though it's sad at the same time. You might recognize some of your own home country in here too: https://winteryknight.wor...tom-online-for-free-2/

That's it! Who would have thought that Quebecers, who are raised to see Brits as the hostile, merciless imperialistic invaders, actually had so much in common with them... lol My wife and I will love this book I'm sure.