New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in

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JL81283
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/23 18:04:24 (permalink)
dcumpian
While it is possible that bad memory is a potential issue, that high number of page faults could also be attributed to an antivirus program doing real-time scanning of every file that is accessed.

 
Oh well, I turned Windows Defender off and tried testing with Latency Monitor again, but unfortunately I still got a lot of hard pagefaults.
 

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#31
JL81283
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/23 18:19:33 (permalink)
Thank you everybody for all the advice so far. Hopefully I will figure this out very soon. It is a real bummer that currently all my free time is being used to figure out these issues with my system instead of making my music with the awesome program that is Sonar.

Sonar Platinum -- Windows 8.1 64bit -- Focusrite Scarlett 6i6
Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK MB -- i7 4790k (4Ghz) CPU -- 16GB RAM (1600mhz 8-8-8-24) -- Crucial MX100 256GB SDD -- WD 1TB 7200RPM HDD -- Seagate 1TB 7200RPM HDD -- OCZ ModXStream 600w PSU
#32
Splat
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/23 18:36:03 (permalink)
JL81283
Googling dxgkrnl.sys points to mainly display adapter driver issues. I would try putting in a display adapter card maybe you can borrow one.

 
JL81283
Could you possibly elaborate on this a little? My Monitor plugs into the DVI-D port on the motherboard. I don't have a separate graphics card. I'm not sure exactly what kind of display adapter card I should get to test this out. Could you maybe post a link that shows a kind of adapter that might be suitable for testing this?

 
Any external display adapter that is compatible with your motherboard... Sorry not sure what to recommend exactly without spending a lot of time researching...  Tom's Hardware forums I suggest for that. I recommend borrowing one at first to see if this clears the issue.
 
Splat
Also disable Microsoft malware protection I see running.

 
JL81283
Eh... I actually only enabled Windows Defender and the firewall after you recommended in your first post that I turn my firewall on and keep my antivirus running at all times. Windows Defender is the only antivirus on this machine. I'll turn it back off for now and only enable it when I plug in my wireless adapter to update software.

 
Right disable it for now - sorry.
 
Splat
Also if you have any Intel utilities running remove them (check in add/remove programs). There seem to be a lot of complaints related. Straight away get rid of Intel proset monitoring service for instance.

 
Any luck with this?
 
Thanks...

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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BassDaddy
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/23 18:45:22 (permalink)
JL81283
Thank you everybody for all the advice so far. Hopefully I will figure this out very soon. It is a real bummer that currently all my free time is being used to figure out these issues with my system instead of making my music with the awesome program that is Sonar.


When I built my computer for audio I hoped I could put it together and turn it on and go. I was wrong. It took longer than I wanted it to to get smoothed out but it did happen. Even if you seem to get info that contradicts stay cool and try to follow it. The pedullam will swing back and forth a few times before you are done but you need to know this stuff anyway. Settings can get undone(how I don't know) so you are gaining some experience for the future. Also, did you get the RAM dialed in in the BIOS? That high power RAM you have can't be just dropped in and you're done. EIST(enhanced Intel speed step) core parking are need to be set right. Hang in there. Be patient. Lots of people here who want to get you rocking as soon as possible.

It's Bass, not Bass.
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#34
tlw
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/23 22:32:09 (permalink)
A thought...

Sometimes fatal pagefaults occur when Windows is trying to write RAM contents to the swap file but can't for some reason.

Could be worth running checkdisk on the System and applications drive(s), the drive where you've put the swap file if it's not on C, and any drives that Sonar is accessing. Also check the drive's SMART status if possible.

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#35
Splat
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/23 23:21:45 (permalink)
Pretty convinced looking at the OP's symptoms that this isn't memory or virtual memory. The windows event viewer would be giving clues by now and it would be a heck of a lot worse.

Chkdsk is always good general advice.
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/23 23:30:15

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#36
pwalpwal
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 09:16:42 (permalink)
if you have a simple project that exhibits this behaviour predictably, consider sending it to tech support along with any crash dumps created
#37
robert_e_bone
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 11:17:28 (permalink)
Here is a little background on page faults:
 
http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2008/06/10/the-basics-of-page-faults.aspx
 
Sorry I don't have more for you at the moment.  I probably missed this, but is it ALL projects?  Also, does the project work with any of the Cakewalk-supplied plugins?  Do other applications on this computer work without issues?
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
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#38
JL81283
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 14:39:20 (permalink)
After Windows Memory Diagnostic finished (It ran 20 Hrs) and turned up no errors, I then ran chkdsk command on all three hard drives and it found no problems.
 
After that I went back through my motherboard settings and double checked everything (RAM timing, power settings, SATA settings, etc.). Everything looked as it was supposed to.
 
Now I plan to run SpeedFan, Smartmontools, and HD Tune to see if they turn up any clues.
 
Splat
Any external display adapter that is compatible with your motherboard... Sorry not sure what to recommend exactly without spending a lot of time researching...  Tom's Hardware forums I suggest for that.



I know I'm probably being obtuse, but I just want to be clear on what type of equipment you are suggesting. You are talking about trying an external graphics card which plugs into a USB port on the computer, right? Not just a display adapter that would allow me to plug into a different video port, right? Sorry, I'm fairly new to computer stuff. I didn't even know there was such a thing as an external graphics card until I did some searches after you suggested I try a display adapter.
 
Splat
SplatAlso if you have any Intel utilities running remove them (check in add/remove programs). There seem to be a lot of complaints related. Straight away get rid of Intel proset monitoring service for instance.

 
Any luck with this?

 
I did check the add/remove and didn't see PROset or any that looked unnecessary, however, I just checked Resource Monitor and found that there are quite a few Intel things running. PROset is one of them. I will try disabling it or removing it. Do you happen to know which others are safe to turn off or remove? The list is as follows:
Intel Dynamic Application Loader Host Interface Service
Intel HD Graphics Control Panel Service
Intel Management and Security Application Local Management Service
Intel PROset Monitoring Service
Intel Rapid Storage Technology
 
BassDaddyAlso, did you get the RAM dialed in in the BIOS? That high power RAM you have can't be just dropped in and you're done. EIST(enhanced Intel speed step) core parking are need to be set right. Hang in there. Be patient. Lots of people here who want to get you rocking as soon as possible.

 
Thanks! And yep, set the correct RAM timing in BIOS when I first setup this computer. I just recently tried disabling EIST in the Bios and I've still been getting poor results with LatencyMonitor.
 
tlwCould be worth running checkdisk on the System and applications drive(s), the drive where you've put the swap file if it's not on C, and any drives that Sonar is accessing. Also check the drive's SMART status if possible.

 
Well I ran chkdsk on my drives and found no problems. I will look into the SMART status next.
 
robert_e_boneHere is a little background on page faults:
 
http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2008/06/10/the-basics-of-page-faults.aspx
 
Sorry I don't have more for you at the moment.  I probably missed this, but is it ALL projects? Also, does the project work with any of the Cakewalk-supplied plugins?  Do other applications on this computer work without issues?

 
Thanks for the link. I just read the article.
 
As for your questions, well, I really don't have answers yet, and that's because I don't have many real Cakewalk projects yet. Sonar is a new DAW for me. I just bought X3 this past october or november when I assembled this system, and I upgraded to Platinum in January. I have been taking my time reading the manual and getting acquainted with the program. All the projects I've opened so far have just been tests to try out the different things that the program manual covers. My old projects were made with another DAW and I plan to eventually re-record them all with Sonar.
 
So the one other thing I've been using Sonar for is simply running it to use certain plug-ins while I practice my instrument parts for the songs I will eventually record. For that I've been running TH2 for my guitar and AD2 for the drum parts. I've had the audio engine fail running both plug-ins alone and together. I've only briefly experimented with other plug-ins and virtual instruments that Sonar came with, and I want to say that I have had the problem happen when using a plug-in other than those two, but I can't say for certain (I have a horrible memory, sorry). But I will try to test this out later after running some other tests.

Sonar Platinum -- Windows 8.1 64bit -- Focusrite Scarlett 6i6
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#39
JL81283
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 14:40:17 (permalink)
Cactus MusicI just built an almost identical system and not only that I also use the 6i6. 
 
I kept getting blue screens so followed the typical troubleshooting endless loop of fixes, updates and head scratching. It's running great now once I found the problem. So don't rule out the hardware on a new build. I even bought more memory. 
The cause= Power Supply see below.



I'm starting to wonder if the PSU could be the root cause of my problems as well. How exactly did you diagnose it as the PSU causing your problems?
 
I did have a BSOD back in January. It happened overnight while downloading AD2 adpaks. When I tried rebooting the system I got another BSOD of death. Then on the third reboot attempt Windows booted as normal but one of my other hard drives was not showing up in File Explorer. After this I tried double checking all my connections and also plugging the power cable going to the missing drive into a different place on the PSU. Everything worked fine on my next reboot and has ever since. I wasn't sure if that was just a coincidence or not. But since I haven't had any more failures to boot or missing drives I kind of just considered it an odd occurrence and forgot about it.

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#40
Anderton
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 14:58:23 (permalink)
600W does seem underpowered. I checked Studio Cat and PC Audio Labs, their systems that seem similar to yours start at 750W with an option to go to 850W.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#41
Splat
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 15:03:02 (permalink)
After Windows Memory Diagnostic finished (It ran 20 Hrs) and turned up no errors, I then ran chkdsk command on all three hard drives and it found no problems.
 
After that I went back through my motherboard settings and double checked everything (RAM timing, power settings, SATA settings, etc.). Everything looked as it was supposed to.
 
Now I plan to run SpeedFan, Smartmontools, and HD Tune to see if they turn up any clues.
 
Splat
Any external display adapter that is compatible with your motherboard... Sorry not sure what to recommend exactly without spending a lot of time researching...  Tom's Hardware forums I suggest for that.



JL81283
I know I'm probably being obtuse, but I just want to be clear on what type of equipment you are suggesting. You are talking about trying an external graphics card which plugs into a USB port on the computer, right? Not just a display adapter that would allow me to plug into a different video port, right? Sorry, I'm fairly new to computer stuff. I didn't even know there was such a thing as an external graphics card until I did some searches after you suggested I try a display adapter.

 
Nope inside your motherboard inside the PC case, I am assuming you are running a desktop. If you are running a laptop forget what I wrote.
 
SplatAlso if you have any Intel utilities running remove them (check in add/remove programs). There seem to be a lot of complaints related. Straight away get rid of Intel proset monitoring service for instance.


 
JL81283
I did check the add/remove and didn't see PROset or any that looked unnecessary, however, I just checked Resource Monitor and found that there are quite a few Intel things running. PROset is one of them. I will try disabling it or removing it. Do you happen to know which others are safe to turn off or remove? The list is as follows:
Intel Dynamic Application Loader Host Interface Service
Intel HD Graphics Control Panel Service
Intel Management and Security Application Local Management Service
Intel PROset Monitoring Service
Intel Rapid Storage Technology

 
Remove proset first and reboot. Check here:

http://www.intel.com/supp.../wlan/sb/CS-030416.htm
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/unable-to-manually-remove-intel-proset-wireless/f5419e23-5764-4896-a769-5391d0f5dad5
 
I think you can pretty much uninstall all the intel apps, most of it is bloatware that easily can easily be disruptive.
Google is your friend here for the specifics. 
Avoid removing "Intel Rapid Storage Technology" for now that's a little more complicated.

Afterwards see if you can disable any intel services under control panel -> Administrative Tools -> Services.
Take it step by step. Always back up.
 
BTW turning off EIST will not increase your latency in your scenario. Keep it off for now. You are trying to rule things out.
 
I don't think you have a PSU issue I would expect other symptoms such as machine freezing or shutting down unexpectedly. Forget about your past issues think about your current symptoms (could have been anything, if you haven't had an issue since Jan (and it was just a one off) it's clearly been resolved, if you get a BSOD installing software it was most likely software (or you fixed it by securing an unseated cable). You should easily be able to get by on 600W.

Right now I see something interfering with your CPU and/or audio engine. Intel s/w right now appears to be the next thing to rule out before you take a look at hardware.
 
Thanks
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/24 17:56:57

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#42
dwardzala
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 15:41:26 (permalink)
Have you checked Gigabytes' forums to see if others with this motherboard are having troubles with audio processing?
 
My first homebuilt system had a gigabyte motherboard and I actually had to roll back the BIOS to get it to process audio properly.  I also worked with their support on some pre-release BIOS' but ultimately I rolled back to an earlier version and was able to run.
 
My next build used an ASUS motherboard because of this issue and others.

Dave
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#43
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 17:34:43 (permalink)
Try removing one stick of RAM. Test it on one stick in different slots and see what happens.
 
Memtest isn't 100% foolproof.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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#44
Splat
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 17:40:56 (permalink)
How would bad memory cause CPU spikes or dropouts? You are more likely to get freezes and OS crashes... And it could happen at anytime (not during a specific condition such as playback).

In regards to pagefaults all systems have them and it's generally down to bad software. Page faults are about memory being written to the hard drive(swap file) not to do with physical memory (and it's nothing to do with dodgy storage either)... check Bob's link.
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/24 18:07:16

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#45
Splat
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 17:58:34 (permalink)
I did send the OP a response about removing Intel software above however Akismet has decided to flag it up after I added another link, could a forum host please undelete the post from the recycle bin. Thankyou.
 
EDIT - Now restored - thankyou:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3196276
 
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/24 19:03:35

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#46
Jim Roseberry
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 17:59:35 (permalink)
Splat
 
To be honest I've probably built 1000+ machines in the past, however once I got bitten when building my own PC (an incompatibility with display adapter and motherboard, which neither vendor would swap out) and I realised it was better to go to a vendor like Dell or HP, you get much better support....You don't need a custom built powerhouse to record music nowadays, and even vendors supply powerful workstations if you really need or want the power for some reason (check HP's Z range).



Obviously I'm biased...
And I have built well in excess of 1000 machines the past 20 years.   
 
If you know what you're doing with choosing components for a DAW and how to best configure them for this purpose, the final machine will be FAR better fit than any off-the-shelf system by any manufacturer.
You have complete control over every component... and exactly how the machine is configured.
ie: Many off-the-shelf machines lack certain BIOS parameters that allow super low/consistent DPC Latency.
If those parameters aren't exposed, you're SOL when pushing performance limits at ultra low (audio) latency.
If you make a mistake choosing a part, bite the bullet and get a replacement.  
If you're not doing hard-core video editing, Haswell's stock HD4600 GPU is perfectly fine... as is an inexpensive HD5450 (both of which are also 100% silent).
 
A DAW is no different than any other high-performance machine.
ie: Race drivers looking for maximum performance don't buy stock Chevy, Dodge, Ford, etc.
They custom build to their exact needs/desires.
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#47
Splat
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Re: New DAW build - audio engine failing with only a single plug-in 2015/03/24 18:06:07 (permalink)
... which is why I understand why gamers would want to do it (I can't understand why DAW users would want to unless they've got zillions of plugins and tracks to record, I would have though reliability and support would be the most important factor, state of art tech generally is the least reliable, F1 cars are great but I wouldn't want one commuting to work it will keep breaking down, I want the fastest car I can get for the money I can afford, I don't need it to go above the speed limit, but above all I want a reliable car)....  anyway each to their own... anyway I digressed from the OP's issue.... sorry to start a debate.
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/24 19:10:02

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#48
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