Clip gain envelope questions

These questions maybe trivial but I can't figure it out:
 
In the Take Lane, supposedly I can shift + click on the clip or the envelope itself to switch back and forth (without having to click on the buttons)  The shift+click the envelope doesn't work for me, most of the time it doesn't make the envelope active/editable, occasionally it does, select the clip always work however.
 
On the main track itself with the Take Lanes collapsed, I can select the clip's envelope but when I try to edit it (move up/down, add node,...) it appears that it does the editing but the envelop doesn't change at all. 
 
How do you select so you can move  the entire envelope, once it has nodes on it? I tried lasso which selects all the nodes but when I try to move it up, for example, only the section where my cursor is got moved, not the entire envelope.
 
Thanks

After spending most of my weekend working on X3, I'm going to conclude that these are the X3's 'quirks' that one has to accept, or move on to  something else and hopefully they'll get addressed in future releases.
I know how they suppose to work but in practice X3 just don't do these functions consistently, (bugs?)
For example (to move  the entire envelope of a clip), you hover the mouse somewhere near the top of the clip and the icon changed to a line with arrows up/down.  Great, but the issue is sometime only the segment around your pointer is active, sometime the entire envelope is active, and sometime nothing is active (doing the same action). Worst sometime you can move a segment but not another segment in the same envelope!
 
Here another 'smart feature' that I encountered.  So I comped the clips but did not remove the muted clips and continue to work on the project.  At mix down I want to go back to fix a gain of a clip.  Somewhere/somehow along the way X3 decided to mute all my clips, so now I can't tell which were the clips I used for my comp, why?  May be there's an "un-flatten" comp? nope!
Of course you can figure out all kinds of work-around.
Sorry for the rants.

Again, to drag an entire envelope by the line portion use Ctrl+Select right on that line.   When you hover over the top portion of a clip above the envelope, the intent is to add four nodes at the extents of the selection.  However, it can be more difficult to grab since it's relying on the room available between the envelope and the top of the clip.   So if the envelope is already displayed and you simply want to drag it up or down using a region that's the duration of the clip, just Ctrl+Select.
 
If the clip is active you can Ctrl+Drag which will auto-switch to Gain automation mode and put the envelope on the cursor to be dragged up or down.   But if you let go then it'll go back to the Clip.
 
FWIW, the only real bug I've come across is that sometimes the clip gain envelope will display as though it's active when it's not - but only in Lanes, never the parent track. 
 

micv

stevec
Again, to drag an entire envelope by the line portion use Ctrl+Select right on that line.

By Ctrl+Select you mean Ctrl+L click (for right-hand mouse)? The consistent behavior I found for this action is you first must make the envelope active by clicking on the clip's button menu and immediately do the Ctrl+L click.  If you activate the envelope in any other way or not doing this in these exact steps then the Ctrl+L click would always move a segment, not the entire envelope.  And this works on the TakeLane clip only.  It only occasionally works like this in the track itself, and most of the time I can't do any gain envelop in the track.

stevec
When you hover over the top portion of a clip above the envelope, the intent is to add four nodes at the extents of the selection.  

It does that and also sometimes add a node in the middle of a segment (not necessarily on the segment that your pointer is on), and sometimes it moves the entire envelope and sometimes just a segment, or does nothing.  I stop trying to use this since I can not find a consistent behavior that I can remember.
 

stevec
If the clip is active you can Ctrl+Drag which will auto-switch to Gain automation mode and put the envelope on the cursor to be dragged up or down.   But if you let go then it'll go back to the Clip.

I'm not sure what Ctrl+Drag mean.  I you mean Ctrl+L click+move the mouse then I think I've that covered above.
 

Sorry about that...  For the first one, I actually meant just a single line portion, not the entire envelope - that would require explicitly selecting all lines and nodes.   And yes, in order to modify an envelope it must be active in the Edit Filter.  Shift-left clicking on it should do the trick, but I have found that every now and then it doesn't seem to do so in Track Lanes.  If for whatever reason that's the case t I would next change the Edit Filter (track widget or HUD).  And if that doesn't work either, I'd do the edit in the parent track - I've never had that fail.  
 
If there's not enough space at the top area of the clip I may get no nodes at all, but I can't say I've ever had a fifth node in the middle added!  Odd one, that is. 
 
Yes, if the clip is currently active, a Ctrl+Left Click-Drag up or down should auto-active the Clip Gain envelope and put it on the cursor.  But it's temporary and will (or should) revert back as soon as you let go of the mouse button.
 
HTH