In search of a Controler and/or Mixer to run with Sonar

Hi.
 
I guess you found the right one to talk to ... I own 2 X32s (rack and compact) as well as a VS-700.
 
First of all, they are totally different animals, you can't compare.
 
The X32 is a full blown digital mixer with an incredible price/value ratio, great scalability if you use S16/S32 snakes etc. and I'm very happy with both of mine (despite a funky and very special problem I had lately that you can read about in this forum).  I use the X32s for mixing live shows (where it also acts as audio interface to supply a number of backing tracks from Sonar) and for live recordings ...I would not use it in the studio, neither DAW control nor quality of the onboard FX processors is anywhere close to what I expect from pro equipment ... and it's limited to 44.1/48 kHz ...
 
PROS & CONS (IMHO and thus totally subjective) ...
 
X32 PROs :
 - MIDAS preamps
 - scene storage/recall
 - 32 IN / 32 OUT
 - remote control from Android/iPad
 
X32 CONS:
 - DAW control via MCU protocol extremely limited (only track control like mute, solo, arm, no control over busses etc.)
 - onboard FX can't compare to VST quality
 - only 44.1 kHz / 48 kHZ (which is OK for live, but in the studio we're at 96 kHZ for a reason)
 
 
As regards the VS-700 you need to distinguish between the 2 components: VS-700R and VS-700C, both of which are officially discontinued but still work quite well with Sonar.
 
Nevertheless I would no longer recommend buying the VS-700R, which is the rack unit with the preamps and the FANTOM synth. I still use it (because it works and the preamps are of good quality), but there is better stuff out there ... the VS-700R is quite noisy, you may not see another driver update ever, and the FANTOM synth is superseded by all the VSTis out there ...
 
The VS-700C, which is just the MIDI controller, is still probably the best, offering the most complete functionality of all Sonar controllers. There are some feature from the Sonar 8.5 days which are no longer supported, but most are ... and the workflow experience is great ... if you are just looking for a way to control Sonar like you would from a mix desk than this gets probably as close as you can get at the moment (with no real positive outlook that anything better will come anytime soon) ... following the forum I read that the SSL stuff (despite being more expensive) does not seem to be at a comparable level when it comes to controlling Sonar (but other will be able to tell you more) on that ... if you are willing to take risk in terms of future drive updates, the VS-700 on ebay may be a relevant option ...
 

Paul P

FreeFlyBertl
X32 CONS:
 - DAW control via MCU protocol extremely limited (only track control like mute, solo, arm, no control over busses etc.)

Could azslow3's plugin come to the rescue here ?
 
You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want!

I can't tell for sure but I suppose not ... because MIDI implementation is really poor in the X32 and azslow3's plug will require the messages to be sent from the X32 (but if the fireware doesn't send it, the plug won't be able to fix it)

duceirae
wow that is all disappointing ...  I really would like a soild controller. One of my friends said they were able to get the old tascam 1884 to work on x2 or x3 ... wonder if it would work on the new sonar.. IDK.. any other controllers out there anyone has used they have been really happy with. I dont supose Presonus has a digital mixer/control surface? 

well, controllers are indeed a sad story and there's a constant discussion here on the forum why there's no effort being made to come up with a rock solid one ... and the discussion always comes to the conclusion that there is no market for the high end stuff ... which must be true because the highly developed ones are all legacy and the only recent annoucements for new controllers I have seen was for the new Behringer series, which is just a fancy replacement for their BCFs and BCRs ...
 
personally, I don't get it because I need a controller and I got one that's working OK. I wouldn't want to do it all by mouse ... I reckon mass market thinks differently, for them the DAW is what it stands for i.e. a digital workstation driven by mouse or touch ... for me it's a box in another room that switch on once and don't seen for the rest of the session ... I want knobs, faders, meters, tubes, preamps, and musical performances ... and not chasing the mouse around ... but that's just my 50ct

ok so I guess my question would be does the x32 work in regards to basic controls like faders, pans ect with sonar as a controler. I wouldnt be using it in the studio as my main interface. I still plan on using my focusrite for that. but id also like a digital mixer for gigs like anything from weddings, podcasts, sports broadcasting, music or whatever. and it looks like it does pretty good for live stuff. but what I guess what im trying to get as as a controller can you do most of the same things you can with something like a tascam 1084 did a few years back.. There is still things Id do with a mouse but id really like to get my hands on real faders and pan knobs things like that... ?

AT
Controllers are hardware and fairly specific and very costly to design and build.

I think that controller producers want we believe in that. But I do not see from where it comes. Most expensive motorized faders, retail price per peace, $20. Endless encoder (think about mouse wheel) is $5. Buttons let say $1. LCD panel for display yet another $50. Controller which glue all that (and read e-mails in addition) is another $50. So, 8 channel surface should be $400 at most. There is no audio, so no noise, coloration, etc. which makes audio equipment a challenge to design.
 
Let take old style ball mouse. It had 3 optical encoders (2 axis plus wheel), 3 buttons and a controller to send all that. By "reassembling" it mechanically ( make "slider" turn one axis and position wheel encoder vertically instead of horizontally) we get "Volume"/"Pan"/"Mute"/"Solo"/"Arm" one strip controller... for under $5
 

I've been saying for years manufactures either need to make simple controller (more like the V100 than 700) for universal use or a DAW specific controller, which the 700 was.

Something like "DAW specific controller" as a hardware is theoretically not possible. They all send/receive absolutely the same signals, the difference is in resolution and feedback support only. The rest is done in software on computer side.

Of course mice are cheap - how many billions do they sell?  And of course controllers send the same midi type info for the most part.  But most of us aren't programmers.  Playing a piano looks simple  - you just hit the right keys.  That knowledge won't put me in Carnegie Hall, tho. 
 
If you want something simple (pick up and control) it needs to be preprogrammed, ie. DAW specific.  Even the VS 700's 32 buttons were hard to figure out although they were all mapped fairly intelligently.  Even with scribble strips (which they didn't have) it would be hard to slog through all 32  of 'em to find the one you are wanting - a lot harder than reaching for an EQ on an analog mixer where all the knobs follow a map and are individually labeled and none have dual functions (or more).
 
The only way to make a physical controller cheap is to have it universal, and once you have made it universal it won't correspond to a physical map.  So you are left to try to limit the software (like Softube does w/ their controller) or the user has no idea without a lot of training which button/knob corresponds to the button/knob on which screen.  The logical conclusion is to have the enough physical controls around a screen and have the screen correspond to the DAW.
 
@

I used to use Pro-tools and have two Digi 002 mixers. They connect using a firewire connection. I need to be able to plug mic's and an instrument into a board in order to record anything. What else am I supposed to plug mic's or a guitar into? I'm told that the Digi002 will work. Is that right?